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[Music]

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the smoke radio

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for the masses headline additional july

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8 1947

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the army air forces has announced that a

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flying disc has been found

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and is now in the possession of the army

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if the game is rigged

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change the game game changer

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i occasionally think how quickly our

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differences worldwide

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would vanish if we were facing an alien

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threat

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from outside this world

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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this is fade to black with your host

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jimmy church

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on the game changer radio network and

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kgra

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i need your help to get to the year

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[Music]

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1985.

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[Music]

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you're listening to fade to black with

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good evening fade to black

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bespoke radio

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for the

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masses how you doing today is monday may

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2020.

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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just 227 days left

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we are live from a bunker

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[Music]

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a bunker that is somewhere in the middle

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of beautiful downtown burbank california

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and i would like to

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to welcome everybody listening all

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around the world

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all across the united states

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[Music]

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heather and tether to and fro back and

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forth up and down east and west north

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and south

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far and near this is fade to black for

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kjcr the game changer network and ktra

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the planets

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i'm your host jimmy church what is

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cracking everybody how you doing

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yeah man what an amazing week we've got

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coming up on fade to black tonight

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nick pope going to start off monday with

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nick pope he's back with us to talk

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about

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the recent rendelshim revelations and of

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course we're gonna go back and visit the

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release of

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three ufo videos by the navy and

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pentagon that were officially released a

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couple of weeks ago

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and uh we'll talk about that and all of

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the latest

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uh ufo nuap news

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nick is an author he's a journalist tv

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personality he ran the british

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government's ufo program

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leading the media to call him the real

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fox molder

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he's recognizes one of the world's

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leading experts on ufos the unexplained

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and conspiracy theories

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nick is the media's go-to person for

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ufos he's

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everywhere these days he's made

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appearances on numerous tv shows and

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documentaries over the last two years

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including

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good morning american nightline tucker

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carlson tonight and ancient aliens

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he's also written for the new york times

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for the bbc news website

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and for nbc's technology and science

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site and has acted as a consultant

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spokesperson on numerous

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alien themed movies tv shows and video

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games

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nick pope gives talks and takes part in

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academic conferences

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fan conventions and debates all around

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the world

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he's spoken at the national press club

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the royal albert hall

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the science museum and the global

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competitiveness

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forum he has also debated at the oxford

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union and

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cambridge union society his website is

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right there at jimmychurchradio.com

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nickpope.net i would like to welcome

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back man that was

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i'm out of air nick i'm just out of

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there i can't i can't

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i can't do this anymore are you doing

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man i'm

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yeah i'm doing great i should do a

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shorter bio

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yeah you know what uh that that was

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edited for content too

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right i yeah i i really should do a sort

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of less is more one

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oh i enjoy it though i enjoy it but it

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says a lot

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nick you've been out there for so many

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years

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representing uh the ufo community

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and this last couple of years uh

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has been uh pretty amazing not only for

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the community but

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for somebody like me that is uh turning

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on uh

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the news to get caught up on things and

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there you are right

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uh you are uh speaking on and called

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upon to comment on just about anything

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that is breaking news

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in the ufo world which these days seems

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like it's a daily thing

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isn't it it is it's absolutely and i

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know this is a little bit of a cliche

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but i'm going to say it anyway it has

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gone from

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fringe to mainstream in a

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couple of years year and two years and a

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half maybe did you ever

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uh that's a that's a great way to put it

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did you ever consider yourself

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fringe no not really i was always just

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the

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ex-government guy who i guess

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some people in the ufo community were

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suspicious of

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and um others thought well

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hopefully he'll tell us something and uh

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yeah that's essentially my possession is

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it is it fun

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to be accused of still working for the

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mod

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right i mean that's got to be uh

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you know it has to have some

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entertainment value for you personally

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well i suppose so i mean it it people

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never tire

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of it it's the he's a shill he's

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uh part of an acclimatization program

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he's part of this sort of drip drip

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disclosure

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uh still secretly working for the

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government uh et cetera et cetera

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look if i if i say no i'm not i mean

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what are those people going to

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do sort of turn around and say oh okay

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that's fine i'll move on

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no they're going to say well he would

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say that wouldn't he

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and not believe a word i say so nothing

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i can say or do

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is going to affect those people either

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way so it's not worth my time

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well you can understand why they say

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that nick you're like the perfect guy

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right and look if i was sitting around

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if i was running some

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secret government program whether it's

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in great britain in the united states

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i'm coming okay we need

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we need we need a guy how about nick

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pope he's

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perfect he's perfect he's nice

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he's intelligent he speaks well and

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wow we can crank this stuff through him

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you're the perfect guy for it

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so you know for those out there that

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want to be conspiratorial about things

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i can understand their feelings for it

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and i'm sure you can respect that

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to some degree right sure yes

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i i think particularly now i've lived in

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the u.s for some years

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i think people say well you know that

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bbc english

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accent that he has is is uh

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you know part of part of the program

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maybe

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i don't know you know that's what people

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say or all i can say is look i'm

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i'm an ex-government guy i'm not a

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whistleblower

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i'm someone who you know through through

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just a

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combination of luck and circumstance

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happened to find myself

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running the british government's ufo

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program and

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i was lucky enough that the british

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government

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themselves decided to declassify and

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release a lot of those

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files that i worked on and and many of

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them of course ones that i wrote

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so i was able to talk about it and yeah

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i i'm

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now i see my role as doing what i can to

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keep this subject in the public eye and

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hopefully to give it some sort of

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respectable face where i can i mean

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there are many others doing that of

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course

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but but obviously with my government

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background

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hopefully that counts for something well

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let's

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british

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uk uh release i i

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look at that maybe a little bit

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differently than others

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i need your opinion what i read what

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from what i understand

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is they released all of the

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public uh reports and call-ins

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about ufo sightings that's what was

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released

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deep

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dark you know bowels of

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the mod and the british defense

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department

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on their knowledge of ufos it's two

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different things that we're talking

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about here right

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uh yes the the british government

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actually starting in may 2008 began a

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program to declassify and release

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most of its ufo files and i actually

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came out of retirement

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to help with that and be a spokesperson

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for it and

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did probably gosh i don't know hundreds

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if not thousands of interviews on it and

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originally we thought it was going to

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take between two and three years and it

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ended up taking 11.

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and the the final batch of files was

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released

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as as recently as april of last year

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and we now have in the public domain 60

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000 pages of documents but what people

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saw recently

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was was something else and as you say

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this is slightly different

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what people saw recently was uh an

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admission

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that there were some files and documents

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that didn't get

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swept up in that previous release yes we

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have some more

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we always keep finding you know just one

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more as colombo would say

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and it's largely public correspondence

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it's largely freedom of information act

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requests but some of it's

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interesting nonetheless it was due to

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have

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gone on to the gov

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dot uk website by the end of march

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obviously coronavirus

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delayed that somewhat but it should be

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out shortly

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do you ever see a time when

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the british government or any government

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for that matter nick

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would release their own documents

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about the ufo question and and possible

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contact

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the real files uh that are part of their

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research

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and not uh freedom of information act or

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uh you know reports from civilians

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well we have had to be fair in the uk

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00:11:35,350 --> 00:11:33,360
more than just freedom of information

290
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:35,360
act requests and citing reports

291
00:11:42,150 --> 00:11:39,040
we have had in the uk some fairly highly

292
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:42,160
classified documents secret ukis only

293
00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:43,680
that sort of level

294
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:47,680
uh policy documents files

295
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:50,000
explaining how those of us who were

296
00:11:52,949 --> 00:11:51,120
charged with looking at this

297
00:11:54,310 --> 00:11:52,959
the government grappled with this

298
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:54,320
subject from

299
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:57,600
inside the system and those have been

300
00:12:00,870 --> 00:12:00,240
declassified most of them have been

301
00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:00,880
released

302
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:03,279
there are some redactions so you know

303
00:12:05,509 --> 00:12:04,720
you'll look at these documents and some

304
00:12:09,030 --> 00:12:05,519
of them

305
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:09,040
yes will will be blacked out in part

306
00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:11,920
but you have had already some good stuff

307
00:12:14,550 --> 00:12:12,399
so

308
00:12:15,910 --> 00:12:14,560
i think it's the old saying the best

309
00:12:18,949 --> 00:12:15,920
place to hide a book

310
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:18,959
is in a library some very interesting

311
00:12:23,910 --> 00:12:20,880
documents have already been

312
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:23,920
kind of snuck out alongside mr and mrs

313
00:12:28,310 --> 00:12:26,320
smith out walking their dog in 1974 and

314
00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:28,320
seeing a light in the sky

315
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:31,040
so i guess what you're saying is no you

316
00:12:36,389 --> 00:12:32,480
don't see a time

317
00:12:39,829 --> 00:12:36,399
being released

318
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:39,839
not everything i i you know that not my

319
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:40,560
call i

320
00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:43,200
i mean not i don't even know if it's the

321
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:46,079
british government's call i suspect that

322
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:48,079
i i don't like to talk about lead

323
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:50,560
nations but if there is a lead nation i

324
00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:52,560
suspect the united states is it

325
00:12:56,069 --> 00:12:54,560
and i suspect that it's the us

326
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:56,079
government's call

327
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:59,040
as to what does and what doesn't get out

328
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:00,240
there and i think we're

329
00:13:03,269 --> 00:13:02,399
we're seeing and i'm sure we'll get on

330
00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:03,279
to this

331
00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:05,920
later in the show we're seeing seeing

332
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:07,600
certainly some moves in the right

333
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:09,360
direction but there's a long long way to

334
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:09,839
go

335
00:13:14,550 --> 00:13:12,480
yeah and and how do you feel about that

336
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,560
you know the last two years for all of

337
00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:16,560
us in the ufo community

338
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,160
uh have been enjoying this ride

339
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:22,399
right where the subject is out in front

340
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:24,320
and people are talking about it

341
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:27,279
whether or not you agree or disagree

342
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,920
that what has come forward is even et

343
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:31,440
related that's another question

344
00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:33,360
altogether but the fact

345
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:36,639
remains that everything that has turned

346
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:39,199
transpired has allowed people to talk

347
00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:40,079
about this

348
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:42,399
where it has never been discussed like

349
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:44,320
this before right that's what we

350
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:47,600
need to enjoy yes

351
00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:50,320
we do absolutely and uh you're right and

352
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:51,680
it speaks to

353
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,519
the sound bite i gave about out of the

354
00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:55,519
fringe and into the mainstream but look

355
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:58,000
as you know two and a half years ago if

356
00:14:02,389 --> 00:13:59,040
you as a

357
00:14:03,269 --> 00:14:02,399
journalist and broadcaster picked up the

358
00:14:05,910 --> 00:14:03,279
phone

359
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:05,920
to a public affairs spokesperson

360
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:07,440
anywhere in government and

361
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,760
and had said look you know my name is

362
00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:11,279
jimmy church i'm about to go

363
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:14,720
and do a piece on this i need your line

364
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:17,199
on ufos the response you would have

365
00:14:20,629 --> 00:14:18,160
gotten

366
00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:20,639
is we haven't done this since project

367
00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:21,519
blue book

368
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:24,320
no one's interested there are no

369
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:26,480
investigations and no research

370
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:29,360
going on now of course we know the

371
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:31,199
situation is very different

372
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:33,199
and we've come a long long way in two

373
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:34,800
and a half years

374
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,199
and the the push has been

375
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:41,360
and i know you must have had this

376
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:42,320
feeling too

377
00:14:47,509 --> 00:14:45,360
but uh that two years ago we were

378
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:47,519
we were on the verge of something really

379
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:50,480
big right that this was about to go

380
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:52,880
to places that we never thought we would

381
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:53,760
go to

382
00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:56,000
and i'm referencing of course full

383
00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:56,800
disclosure

384
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:59,839
full on everything it didn't quite

385
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:01,199
happen that way

386
00:15:09,189 --> 00:15:05,120
why do you think it slowed down

387
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:09,199
well i don't know if slowed down is is

388
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:11,360
really the right way to characterize it

389
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:13,120
but certainly

390
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:16,560
when the new york times published that

391
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:19,680
that landmark

392
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:23,440
article and and when the existence of

393
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:25,120
atip was revealed

394
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:28,240
the us navy encounters came to light

395
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:30,000
people like david fravor

396
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:31,600
went on the line with this people

397
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:33,040
thought right this is it

398
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:35,920
and and then yes to be fair as you say

399
00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:36,880
there was a sort of

400
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:40,399
well now what moment and and maybe we're

401
00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:41,680
still in that

402
00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:45,759
but maybe we are still seeing a sort of

403
00:15:49,749 --> 00:15:48,880
slow creeping move forward on this and

404
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:49,759
of course just

405
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:53,040
just literally a few days ago april 27th

406
00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:55,920
we saw the department of defense itself

407
00:15:59,829 --> 00:15:56,320
put

408
00:16:02,870 --> 00:15:59,839
those three infamous u.s navy videos

409
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:02,880
online themselves and and again i'm sure

410
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:04,240
we're going to get into the house and

411
00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:05,040
wise

412
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:07,440
of that and and absolutely there's more

413
00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:08,160
to come

414
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:12,320
this is disclosure to go

415
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:13,839
to go back to your original point

416
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:16,639
disclosure is not a single event

417
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:20,320
it's not binary it's a process and

418
00:16:25,509 --> 00:16:23,759
i'm not even sure it's it's an event or

419
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:25,519
or even a process in the sense that the

420
00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:27,920
ufo community like to imagine it with

421
00:16:31,189 --> 00:16:28,880
this sort of

422
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:31,199
cliche my fellow americans people of the

423
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:32,959
world we're not alone

424
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:35,360
i don't think it's ever been about that

425
00:16:38,069 --> 00:16:37,120
i i think it's been more subtle more

426
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:38,079
nuanced

427
00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:41,519
yeah and and and i agree with you

428
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:45,279
i agree with you 100 unfortunately

429
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:47,839
uh the rest of the community maybe the

430
00:16:51,749 --> 00:16:48,399
world

431
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:51,759
doesn't agree with us nick nothing short

432
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:52,240
of

433
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:57,519
stepping up to the mic on live

434
00:17:01,269 --> 00:16:58,639
television

435
00:17:03,749 --> 00:17:01,279
you know uttering those words anything

436
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:03,759
short of that is not disclosure

437
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:05,360
and that's that's what we're fighting

438
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:07,039
here for me to say

439
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:09,199
i had disclosures drip drip drip we're

440
00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:11,039
getting there i don't need it i've seen

441
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:11,600
things

442
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:13,199
we're in the middle of this that's not

443
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,360
what people want to hear is it

444
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:17,520
no it's not here look there's three

445
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:18,880
scenarios

446
00:17:23,029 --> 00:17:21,760
um and two of them are easy and one is

447
00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:23,039
very difficult

448
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:25,520
first scenario is easy you find alien

449
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:27,360
life and you say my fellow americans

450
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:28,640
people of the world we found

451
00:17:32,549 --> 00:17:31,760
aliens easy it's none right second

452
00:17:34,549 --> 00:17:32,559
scenario

453
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,559
is my fellow americans people of the

454
00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:36,960
world we found alien life

455
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:40,160
actually we found it 70 years ago yeah

456
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:41,600
that's a little bit difficult but hey

457
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:43,039
you can always spin it look

458
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:46,080
my predecessors kind of decided for good

459
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:46,720
reasons

460
00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:49,120
so they thought but now i'm telling you

461
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:49,760
it's real

462
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:52,720
right you know that's kind of easy too

463
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:54,880
but the third scenario which is where i

464
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:55,840
think we are

465
00:18:00,789 --> 00:17:57,840
is the difficult one it's my fellow

466
00:18:02,150 --> 00:18:00,799
americans people the world our pilots

467
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:02,160
chase these things

468
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:05,280
our radar operators track them our ford

469
00:18:09,990 --> 00:18:08,160
looking infrared cameras record them

470
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:10,000
there's speeds and maneuvers ahead of

471
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:12,320
everything anything we have

472
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:14,720
but we're not really quite sure what

473
00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:16,640
this is

474
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:20,160
and that's difficult because governments

475
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,080
exist on and thrive on projecting

476
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:26,640
power and authority you don't project

477
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:28,480
power and authority by saying

478
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:30,559
you know we don't know there's something

479
00:18:35,029 --> 00:18:32,080
but we can't figure it out

480
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:35,039
no one wants to go there and i get that

481
00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:35,600
and

482
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:37,360
this is the this is the problem with

483
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:39,360
that statement um

484
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:43,760
either either we're alone or we are not

485
00:18:50,070 --> 00:18:47,360
right to imply that you don't know

486
00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:50,080
and you're not in control i think that's

487
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:51,919
completely the wrong approach

488
00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:54,240
right shouldn't some you know come clean

489
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:56,240
on one side of it or the other so we

490
00:18:58,470 --> 00:18:57,919
know how to move forward i would think

491
00:19:04,549 --> 00:18:58,480
that's

492
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,559
yes but it it is difficult because as i

493
00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:06,480
say the the situation is

494
00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:10,880
is literally that uh if you take it

495
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:13,360
at face value we've lost control of our

496
00:19:18,390 --> 00:19:14,960
own airspace

497
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:18,400
and nobody's going to put it like that

498
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:21,200
and everyone's going to kind of try and

499
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:22,320
find a way to spin

500
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:24,799
that but there are only so many ways you

501
00:19:30,150 --> 00:19:25,440
can

502
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:30,160
of those ways

503
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:32,960
make government look good and and

504
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:34,320
therefore none of those

505
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:37,600
ways are ways they want to go uh

506
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:39,679
we're gonna get to the videos after the

507
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:40,640
break and we

508
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:42,960
i do want to discuss the uh the how and

509
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:45,039
the why and certainly the who

510
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:47,679
but what do you see nick personally when

511
00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:49,840
you look at these videos

512
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:53,200
are you seeing something that is off

513
00:19:58,630 --> 00:19:55,919
planet do you think something is etish

514
00:19:59,909 --> 00:19:58,640
do you see anything like that that is

515
00:20:02,789 --> 00:19:59,919
not of this earth

516
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:02,799
or is there some other explanation what

517
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:05,039
do you see personally

518
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:07,200
i see a situation where i don't have

519
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:09,600
enough data to make the call

520
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:13,440
i can say there are probably about

521
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:15,840
six or seven different theories and we

522
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:17,600
can get into them if you'd like

523
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:20,960
um and there'll be a best current

524
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:22,880
assessment and again we can get into

525
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:23,440
that

526
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,400
but but i don't have because i'm no

527
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:28,000
longer in the system

528
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:31,200
i don't have enough data to make that

529
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:31,600
call

530
00:20:36,149 --> 00:20:34,320
someone probably does if if not

531
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,159
definitively at least

532
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:39,039
as i say in terms of making a a best

533
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,360
assessment

534
00:20:44,789 --> 00:20:43,440
well i i guess i'm asking about your

535
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:44,799
eyeballs

536
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:47,600
oh you know and what i'm saying if i

537
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:48,799
approached you

538
00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:50,559
at a conference and i whipped out my

539
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:52,880
cell phone and i showed you one of those

540
00:20:58,710 --> 00:20:55,440
videos

541
00:21:01,909 --> 00:20:58,720
you don't need data or anything to

542
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:01,919
to understand what you are seeing you're

543
00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:02,640
going to make

544
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:05,120
some kind of uh call right there you

545
00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:05,679
know

546
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:08,240
your emotions so that's what i'm asking

547
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:10,240
about not the data or anybody else's

548
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:13,200
collective opinions what do you see when

549
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:15,600
you see those videos

550
00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:17,440
well i'm going to half disagree with you

551
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:20,559
there i i i think we do need data i

552
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:22,080
taking your point about the eyeball

553
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:23,919
though yeah i look at you whip out the

554
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:25,440
cell phone and show me that and i say

555
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:25,840
wow

556
00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:29,200
great thanks that's interesting that

557
00:21:33,909 --> 00:21:32,400
really doesn't look like aircraft lights

558
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:33,919
or a weather balloon

559
00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:37,280
but i know because

560
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:39,200
i can see that it's filmed on ford

561
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:40,480
looking infrared

562
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:44,480
camera i know that somewhere in

563
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:46,480
the u.s government the military the

564
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:48,400
intelligence community

565
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:51,840
there will be what we call mazent

566
00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:55,120
data on that measurement and signature

567
00:22:01,190 --> 00:21:58,320
intelligence which will tell me those

568
00:22:02,149 --> 00:22:01,200
items of data that i do need to know to

569
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:02,159
make a more

570
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:04,880
informed call on that what's the

571
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:05,840
distance

572
00:22:09,270 --> 00:22:08,799
of this object from the lens what's its

573
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:09,280
speed

574
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:12,240
what's it it's it's acceleration uh

575
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:13,520
what's its size

576
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:16,799
and only with those pieces of data can i

577
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:18,880
really make a definitive assessment and

578
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:19,360
say

579
00:22:25,830 --> 00:22:23,200
look is this just some combination of

580
00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:25,840
of radar glitch and ford looking

581
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:26,880
infrared camera

582
00:22:32,630 --> 00:22:30,240
anomaly is it our own tech

583
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:32,640
being blind tested against the fleet is

584
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:33,440
it russia

585
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:36,720
is it china or is it something else

586
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:38,880
and that's that's where we are left with

587
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:40,799
this unfortunately

588
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:43,919
and uh there's another point to this and

589
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:46,240
again we're gonna go much deeper after

590
00:22:51,029 --> 00:22:47,520
the break

591
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:51,039
do you think in your in your best

592
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:52,880
opinion because you've been at this for

593
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:53,600
so long

594
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:55,919
at a government level do you think that

595
00:23:01,029 --> 00:22:57,120
the united states or

596
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:01,039
any government would release a video

597
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:04,960
of a flying saucer

598
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:07,120
well that's the really interesting

599
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:08,640
question it's

600
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:10,080
you know there are two interesting

601
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:12,320
questions here one interesting question

602
00:23:15,510 --> 00:23:13,520
is what the heck

603
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:15,520
is it on these videos what are we

604
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:16,559
looking at here

605
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:18,240
that's that's an interesting question

606
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:20,720
but another really interesting question

607
00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:23,760
is if the u.s navy and the u.s

608
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:24,480
government

609
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:27,520
in the wider sense doesn't genuinely

610
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:29,679
doesn't know what these things are

611
00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:33,120
why why are they putting it out there

612
00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:36,240
um when arguably this might be something

613
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:37,440
highly classified

614
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:39,760
right maybe our own maybe russia maybe

615
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:41,120
china maybe even

616
00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:43,440
extraterrestrial what and and you've got

617
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:44,720
to ask

618
00:23:47,830 --> 00:23:46,640
and this is the way that government

619
00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:47,840
always asks

620
00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:51,200
these questions what are the threats

621
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,080
and what are the opportunities and and

622
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:56,400
the opportunity question is interesting

623
00:24:01,350 --> 00:23:58,960
what does the us government have to gain

624
00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:01,360
by putting this out there

625
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:03,440
and the on the face of it the answer's

626
00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:04,480
not much

627
00:24:08,310 --> 00:24:06,799
like i said it you know doesn't make

628
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:08,320
them look that clever

629
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:09,679
because on the face of it they're saying

630
00:24:15,430 --> 00:24:11,679
we don't know and there's something

631
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:15,440
better faster more maneuverable in our

632
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:18,640
skies and our best technology can't

633
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:19,360
catch them

634
00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:21,840
but the follow-up question is how is

635
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:24,720
that being perceived in russia and china

636
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:27,760
what questions are the leadership asking

637
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:28,320
there

638
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:31,120
and and believe you me they are asking

639
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:32,000
questions they must

640
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:34,720
be and and the basic question is what

641
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:36,720
the heck's going on in the united states

642
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:38,320
with these ufos

643
00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:40,880
could there be a a flip side to this too

644
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:41,600
as well

645
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:44,320
which is that the navy and the pentagon

646
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:45,200
just don't care

647
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:48,480
about these videos i'm not sure no i

648
00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:49,760
don't agree with

649
00:24:55,990 --> 00:24:53,200
i don't agree that they don't care but

650
00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:56,000
what i do think is that it's worth

651
00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:57,360
looking at all this

652
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:01,039
from through the lens of

653
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:04,240
an intelligence operation

654
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:07,600
a psychological operation of some sort

655
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:10,640
sure and if so the question is

656
00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:14,559
what do we want russia or china

657
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:17,440
to come away with out of this and does

658
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:17,840
that

659
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:21,919
anything about

660
00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:23,840
what we're dealing with and why the u.s

661
00:25:26,070 --> 00:25:25,360
government would be putting it out

662
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:26,080
because look

663
00:25:29,269 --> 00:25:27,760
here's one other really interesting

664
00:25:32,710 --> 00:25:29,279
point about this

665
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:32,720
every time this story whether it's atip

666
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:35,440
or the us navy encounters every time

667
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:38,720
this story looks as if it's dying down

668
00:25:43,430 --> 00:25:41,360
it flares up again but if you look at

669
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:43,440
how and why it flares up again

670
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:45,360
it flares up again because somebody in

671
00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:46,720
the us government does

672
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:50,320
something it's like for the first time

673
00:25:54,549 --> 00:25:51,440
instead of down

674
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:54,559
playing and debunking the us government

675
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:56,400
they're the ones keeping this story

676
00:26:02,390 --> 00:25:59,279
going why

677
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:02,400
that brilliant point nick that is

678
00:26:07,669 --> 00:26:04,159
absolutely brilliant

679
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:07,679
and there is uh another concern of mine

680
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:09,440
i've only got 45 seconds

681
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:12,400
then we go to the break that there there

682
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:12,720
is

683
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:16,320
technology and the ability to pull down

684
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:19,039
any video or anything on the net right

685
00:26:22,149 --> 00:26:20,880
we've seen a lot of censorship over the

686
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:22,159
last couple of weeks just over

687
00:26:26,789 --> 00:26:23,600
coronavirus

688
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:26,799
and if if the navy was concerned about

689
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:28,080
these videos

690
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:29,840
why didn't they have them pulled down in

691
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:31,279
2007

692
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:32,480
you know why didn't they have them

693
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:34,799
pulled down way before they officially

694
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:36,320
released them when they were already out

695
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:38,720
in the public domain why not stop it

696
00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:40,640
then if they were concerned about

697
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:43,039
some type of secret information or

698
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:44,559
technology or

699
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,080
ufos invading our airspace you know why

700
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:50,559
why not just pull it down then yeah and

701
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:52,640
and why now throw

702
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:55,679
fire back on on you know throw

703
00:26:59,830 --> 00:26:58,080
kerosene back on the fire and and

704
00:27:02,070 --> 00:26:59,840
reignite this whole story

705
00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:02,080
just when it was fading away yeah i

706
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:03,600
agree with you let's take our break

707
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:04,240
right here

708
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,360
nick pope is our guest and uh now we've

709
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:09,200
got a lot to discuss tonight on randall

710
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:10,240
shim we will get

711
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:12,159
to all of that right now we're

712
00:27:18,149 --> 00:27:14,640
discussing the official release

713
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:18,159
of three ufo slash uap videos

714
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:20,399
by the navy and the pentagon back on

715
00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:22,559
april 27th this is fade to black i'm

716
00:27:35,490 --> 00:27:24,399
murals jimmy church more with nick

717
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:35,500
after this short break stay with us

718
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:46,480
[Music]

719
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:48,399
all right welcome back fade to black i

720
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:50,000
am your host jimmy church tonight nick

721
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:50,880
pope is here

722
00:27:56,870 --> 00:27:54,000
tomorrow night greg house

723
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:56,880
wednesday night dr robert shock and

724
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:57,840
thursday night

725
00:28:01,269 --> 00:28:00,080
linda moulton howe great week ahead of

726
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:01,279
us tonight

727
00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:04,159
it is nick pope and nick i want to i

728
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:05,919
want to go back and finish our thoughts

729
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:08,640
uh that we were moving into right before

730
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:09,760
the break

731
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:13,200
and one concern when you're bringing up

732
00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:14,080
you know why now

733
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:17,200
or why bring it up again by my count

734
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:20,399
we now have three official releases

735
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:23,679
of these videos right there was

736
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:27,440
uh the release back in december of 2017

737
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:30,640
and the arguments presented by uh to the

738
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:33,120
stars academy and everybody there

739
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:35,279
they produced a document and a release

740
00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:36,320
form and

741
00:28:40,389 --> 00:28:38,960
you know for public you and all of that

742
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:40,399
was released and

743
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:42,000
you know stating that we've got these

744
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:43,520
officially released

745
00:28:50,389 --> 00:28:46,559
last year uh the

746
00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:50,399
navy through john greenwald

747
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:53,679
said that these videos that have been

748
00:28:57,669 --> 00:28:54,559
released

749
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:57,679
have uaps tied to them

750
00:29:00,870 --> 00:28:59,760
and using that vernacular for the first

751
00:29:03,190 --> 00:29:00,880
time from the navy

752
00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:03,200
was a pretty substantial moment and then

753
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:04,159
here we are

754
00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:08,159
uh in april moving into may of 2020

755
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:10,559
and they have been officially released

756
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:11,600
again

757
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:13,600
what's the thought process behind this

758
00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:16,320
for the navy and the pentagon

759
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:18,480
well as i say it's really interesting i

760
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:20,799
i've done

761
00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:23,760
kind of news management media management

762
00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:25,679
call it what you like

763
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:27,440
for the ministry of defense not just on

764
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:30,080
ufos but other subjects too

765
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:32,559
and it sounds like a bit of a dark art

766
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:34,159
and it is but

767
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:37,360
essentially it boils down to talk up

768
00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:38,320
good news

769
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:42,240
and play down and try and kill bad news

770
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:45,120
so the question is it goes back to what

771
00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:46,559
i was saying just before the break

772
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:49,520
why would it be that every time this

773
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:50,159
story

774
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:52,240
looks like it's dying down the u.s

775
00:29:56,950 --> 00:29:54,000
government itself

776
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:56,960
throws kerosene onto the fire and

777
00:30:01,110 --> 00:29:58,799
everything flares up again

778
00:30:03,029 --> 00:30:01,120
that tells you something it tells you

779
00:30:06,549 --> 00:30:03,039
that there's been a fundamental

780
00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:06,559
sea change we've had 70 years of

781
00:30:11,549 --> 00:30:09,279
denial and down playing and debunking

782
00:30:15,669 --> 00:30:11,559
and now it's it's as if we've had this

783
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:15,679
180 degree flip where they're trying to

784
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:16,240
put this

785
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:19,520
out front and center under the spotlight

786
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:22,559
as i say why would they do that

787
00:30:27,029 --> 00:30:25,679
is it because they know something's

788
00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:27,039
coming

789
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:29,520
they can't stop it and they just want to

790
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:31,679
get out ahead of it

791
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:35,520
is it because they this is some

792
00:30:41,669 --> 00:30:37,919
sort of counter intelligence operation

793
00:30:43,909 --> 00:30:41,679
they want to send some sort of message

794
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:43,919
you know disinformation whatever it is

795
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:45,600
to to russia or china or

796
00:30:49,029 --> 00:30:48,080
whoever or is it something else and i i

797
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:49,039
don't know i'm

798
00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:50,799
i don't work in the system anymore i'm

799
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:52,080
out of the game

800
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:03,110
anyway oh that's funny nick that was

801
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:04,159
good that was good

802
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,880
you know i i i don't know what's going

803
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:08,640
on yeah i mean of course

804
00:31:12,149 --> 00:31:11,279
i i still talk to a few people i mean

805
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:12,159
obviously i

806
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:15,440
you don't do 21 years in government and

807
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:18,320
not not sort of still have some friends

808
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:19,760
and contacts but

809
00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:22,720
but i am you know i'm genuinely

810
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:24,399
scratching my head here and i think a

811
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:25,679
lot of people are even

812
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:27,840
people in the system and are saying

813
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:29,440
what's going on there's something even

814
00:31:33,509 --> 00:31:30,640
we

815
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:33,519
don't don't quite get about how all this

816
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:35,519
is playing out it's it's like

817
00:31:39,669 --> 00:31:38,000
it's like there's a jigsaw but there are

818
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:39,679
some missing pieces

819
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:42,480
and it's not even being played in the

820
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:43,679
usual way

821
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:46,240
it's it's that weird now and then we

822
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:47,039
have uh

823
00:31:50,149 --> 00:31:48,640
something else interesting when it comes

824
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:50,159
to these three videos

825
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:53,600
and that is uh dave fravor and the rest

826
00:31:56,149 --> 00:31:53,919
of

827
00:31:57,509 --> 00:31:56,159
the pilots and the crew members and the

828
00:32:00,549 --> 00:31:57,519
and the princeton and the

829
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:00,559
everybody that is involved clearly have

830
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:02,320
some of the most compelling

831
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:04,960
testimony that we have ever heard when

832
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:07,279
it comes to the ufo subject

833
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:09,760
but when i look at the videos and i hear

834
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:10,640
what they

835
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:13,679
are describing i'm not sure

836
00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:16,320
if what they witnessed is what is in

837
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:18,159
these videos and we're almost talking

838
00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:18,960
about

839
00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:21,440
two different situations what do you

840
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:22,159
think about that

841
00:32:28,149 --> 00:32:26,080
how compelling is their testimony

842
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:28,159
well i think you've made an interesting

843
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:29,120
point

844
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:32,480
um none of this

845
00:32:36,389 --> 00:32:35,440
stands or falls on a single part of the

846
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:36,399
story

847
00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:39,760
we have this this convergence

848
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:43,440
of eyewitness testimony from pilots

849
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:46,320
from radar operators then we have the

850
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:48,799
radar data themselves then we have

851
00:32:54,470 --> 00:32:52,559
the flare images and and not just

852
00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:54,480
the three videos of course i mean i

853
00:32:58,630 --> 00:32:56,080
think pretty much everyone involved

854
00:32:59,909 --> 00:32:58,640
with this has said this is just the tip

855
00:33:02,389 --> 00:32:59,919
of the iceberg i mean

856
00:33:03,590 --> 00:33:02,399
no one's no one's pretending there are

857
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:03,600
three

858
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:05,760
incidents where the military have

859
00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:07,440
encountered ufos i mean there are

860
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:09,360
hundreds

861
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:13,200
if not thousands uh over over decades

862
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:15,679
and indeed last year when the us navy

863
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:17,200
updated their guidance

864
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:20,080
to their own people saying what to do if

865
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:22,480
you encounter one of these things

866
00:33:26,789 --> 00:33:24,960
they're rational for doing that was not

867
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:26,799
we've had three incidents

868
00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:29,600
of course not it was there's an ongoing

869
00:33:33,509 --> 00:33:30,720
series

870
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:33,519
of incursions into restricted military

871
00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:35,200
airspace by these things and we need to

872
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:36,480
get to the bottom of it and we need to

873
00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:37,679
try and stop it

874
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:40,399
now we have uh a couple of phases of

875
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:41,039
this

876
00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:44,799
that you have been right there

877
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:47,919
in the center of this madness

878
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:51,279
going back to december of 2012

879
00:33:54,389 --> 00:33:53,279
often running with the media right every

880
00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:54,399
single night

881
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:56,960
it was an incredible incredible time it

882
00:34:01,590 --> 00:33:58,399
was so exciting

883
00:34:04,310 --> 00:34:01,600
and and last year with the uap

884
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:04,320
uh designation from the navy that caught

885
00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:06,559
a lot of traction with the media

886
00:34:10,629 --> 00:34:09,760
and the world and the ufo community two

887
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:10,639
weeks ago

888
00:34:16,149 --> 00:34:13,839
april 27th this uh revelation

889
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:16,159
of the navy officially releasing these

890
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:17,200
videos

891
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:19,919
certainly was out there in the media but

892
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:22,320
the reaction from the world and the ufo

893
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:23,599
community

894
00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:26,240
was barely there there was barely a

895
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:28,159
ripple in the water

896
00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:31,520
why do you think it's died down

897
00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:35,200
well firstly i'm not entirely sure

898
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:38,560
it was barely a ripple i i saw a lot

899
00:34:45,109 --> 00:34:42,079
and and i did a lot i mean i you know i

900
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:45,119
my emails were were almost constant and

901
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:45,919
i was getting

902
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:48,159
maybe with some of this you know maybe

903
00:34:52,149 --> 00:34:48,960
it's not

904
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:52,159
quantitative but it's qualitative

905
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:55,679
so for example i was getting requests

906
00:35:02,310 --> 00:34:59,280
from the bbc i was getting requests from

907
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:02,320
british forces broadcasting service so

908
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:05,760
so basically forces.net you know the

909
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:08,240
the british governments the british

910
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:09,520
military's own

911
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:13,040
own tv network and radio

912
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:16,640
station on on this so i was getting a

913
00:35:19,109 --> 00:35:17,520
lot

914
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:19,119
about this so i think it did make a

915
00:35:23,470 --> 00:35:20,880
splash but look the other

916
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:23,480
the elephant in the room of course is

917
00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:25,119
coronavirus and

918
00:35:33,349 --> 00:35:29,760
i don't know after 9 11.

919
00:35:36,550 --> 00:35:33,359
there was a an infamous saying by a

920
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:36,560
policy adviser in the british government

921
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,119
and and she said today would be a good

922
00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:41,280
day to bury bad news

923
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:44,079
meaning obviously 9 11's just happened

924
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:44,560
and

925
00:35:47,589 --> 00:35:46,960
we can sneak anything out we like

926
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:47,599
because

927
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:48,880
you know nobody else is going to be

928
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:51,119
covering anything except 911

929
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:54,160
and the towers coming down so we

930
00:36:02,630 --> 00:35:58,000
we have to factor coronavirus into this

931
00:36:05,349 --> 00:36:02,640
and say is some of this at some level

932
00:36:06,790 --> 00:36:05,359
uh the us military feeling and the

933
00:36:09,030 --> 00:36:06,800
government feeling

934
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:09,040
we can if we've got things that we need

935
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:11,040
to get out

936
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:13,280
getting them out now while the world is

937
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:14,640
looking the other way

938
00:36:19,589 --> 00:36:17,359
might be worth thinking about the timing

939
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:19,599
is suspect isn't it

940
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:23,040
yes it is um although i think it blew up

941
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:23,920
in their faces

942
00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:27,119
as i say i i got these requests and

943
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:30,240
maybe not as many as i would have gotten

944
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:32,480
before coronavirus but as i say it's not

945
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:34,240
necessarily the number

946
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:37,119
it's who's calling and when the answer

947
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:38,320
to who's calling

948
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:41,440
is well it's the bbc or it's

949
00:36:48,150 --> 00:36:44,880
npr or or it's it's um

950
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:48,160
british forces radio then it's not

951
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:49,119
necessarily

952
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:52,000
how many people you reach it's who you

953
00:36:55,670 --> 00:36:53,440
reach

954
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:55,680
and one thing that i notice and the

955
00:36:59,349 --> 00:36:56,880
barometer

956
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:59,359
that i like to use like everybody uses

957
00:37:02,310 --> 00:37:00,320
today

958
00:37:03,349 --> 00:37:02,320
is how many comments are out there in

959
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:03,359
social media

960
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:05,760
what's the response there how many

961
00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:08,560
shares of the story and

962
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:11,680
you can kind of tell if things are a

963
00:37:16,790 --> 00:37:15,119
important to people and b if uh it gets

964
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:16,800
shared and re-shared and re-shared

965
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:18,720
because people want to

966
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:22,400
have others check this knowledge out and

967
00:37:26,710 --> 00:37:25,119
this time around as much as i i was

968
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:26,720
excited about it

969
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:30,000
it just seemed to die on the vine and i

970
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:31,599
was you know look i was seeing it on the

971
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:34,240
front page of cnn i saw it on the bbc i

972
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:35,680
saw it on fox and

973
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:38,400
and tucker and and you know the media

974
00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:39,920
did their part

975
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:41,680
it was the response from the public

976
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:44,000
without clicking on these articles and

977
00:37:47,910 --> 00:37:45,920
and the power of the click that wasn't

978
00:37:49,109 --> 00:37:47,920
there and that's the part that really

979
00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:49,119
surprised me nick

980
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:51,280
and i can't quite figure out why the

981
00:37:55,990 --> 00:37:52,880
only thing that's in the way

982
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:56,000
is coronavirus so maybe the timing is

983
00:37:59,349 --> 00:37:57,680
suspect and that's why they dropped the

984
00:38:02,710 --> 00:37:59,359
story when they did

985
00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:02,720
that could be but i i think we still

986
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:05,599
the the history of this has still to be

987
00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:06,320
written

988
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:09,440
and i still don't know whether people

989
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:11,839
saw this and they thought you know what

990
00:38:17,349 --> 00:38:14,400
we have bigger fish to fry at the moment

991
00:38:19,109 --> 00:38:17,359
right right corona virus or whether

992
00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:19,119
people thought you know what

993
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:21,920
we need something to get us away from

994
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:22,800
this constant

995
00:38:28,630 --> 00:38:26,560
24 7 coronavirus uh coverage

996
00:38:29,829 --> 00:38:28,640
we need one other interesting thing to

997
00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:29,839
think about oh look

998
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:33,280
ufos so i i still don't know quite how

999
00:38:37,589 --> 00:38:34,480
this is playing out

1000
00:38:40,069 --> 00:38:37,599
and even if the department of defense

1001
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:40,079
planned this who's to say they got it

1002
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:41,680
right in terms of

1003
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:44,160
whether this would crash and burn or

1004
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:45,440
whether it would take off

1005
00:38:50,470 --> 00:38:48,720
yeah i go back to the point quantity

1006
00:38:53,349 --> 00:38:50,480
versus quality

1007
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:53,359
would do you want this story if if

1008
00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:56,160
you've got something to say about ufos

1009
00:39:01,670 --> 00:38:59,200
do you want to say it to a hundred

1010
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:01,680
thousand different people on blogs

1011
00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:03,520
or do you want five minutes face time

1012
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:05,280
with the president to talk about it

1013
00:39:09,190 --> 00:39:08,400
that's right and there's there's another

1014
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:09,200
part to this

1015
00:39:13,349 --> 00:39:11,680
and i and i'm agreeing with everything

1016
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:13,359
uh that you're saying right now

1017
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:16,640
very very uh interesting comments

1018
00:39:23,349 --> 00:39:19,839
and that is with the constant barrage

1019
00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:23,359
of ufo news over the last two years

1020
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:25,839
that maybe the world has been pummeled

1021
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:27,680
into submission on the subject

1022
00:39:31,109 --> 00:39:30,000
they understand that we're not alone now

1023
00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:31,119
and even

1024
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:33,119
their interest in the subject may be

1025
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:36,400
waning as as crazy as that may sound

1026
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:40,400
but drip drip drip may have worked

1027
00:39:44,069 --> 00:39:42,400
well i always go back to a very

1028
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:44,079
interesting comment

1029
00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:47,119
made by colonel john alexander and he

1030
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:47,839
pointed out

1031
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:50,400
you don't shock people by telling them

1032
00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:52,560
something they already believe

1033
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:55,680
and if if what's going on now

1034
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:58,079
is is maybe testing whether we're in

1035
00:40:01,750 --> 00:40:00,000
that zone

1036
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:01,760
then i think the answer is yes we are in

1037
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:03,760
that zone because

1038
00:40:08,069 --> 00:40:06,240
because yeah you could say that um we've

1039
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:08,079
we've had these stories out and people

1040
00:40:12,069 --> 00:40:08,960
are saying

1041
00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:12,079
aliens yeah why not it's not too crazy

1042
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:14,960
yeah exactly and i go back i haven't

1043
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:16,000
talked to you since

1044
00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:19,200
uh uh this this dinner

1045
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:22,720
happened with me but back on uh december

1046
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:23,520
18th

1047
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:26,000
right the day after disclosure i'm with

1048
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:26,960
my family

1049
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:30,000
uh here in burbank for dinner and

1050
00:40:35,270 --> 00:40:33,040
in a cookout and my family never

1051
00:40:36,829 --> 00:40:35,280
discusses ufos with me they know what i

1052
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:36,839
do for a job

1053
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:39,440
whatever they're not interested which is

1054
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:41,680
fine right we don't talk about

1055
00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:44,240
we don't talk about fade to black but on

1056
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:46,160
this particular night the subject came

1057
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:47,119
up because it was

1058
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:49,760
all over the news and my sister-in-law

1059
00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:50,880
who has never

1060
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:54,480
ever talk to me about ufos said one line

1061
00:40:57,670 --> 00:40:55,200
to me

1062
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:57,680
that that i just won't forget she goes

1063
00:41:02,470 --> 00:40:58,319
what

1064
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:02,480
not alone

1065
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:05,200
and it and i just had to stop right

1066
00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:05,520
there

1067
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:08,800
and absorb what she was referring to yes

1068
00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:10,319
this is big news

1069
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:12,400
but even for somebody like me come on

1070
00:41:15,270 --> 00:41:13,920
we're not alone in the universe what's

1071
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:15,280
the big deal

1072
00:41:22,790 --> 00:41:18,960
and that i i think that may have

1073
00:41:24,309 --> 00:41:22,800
that idea may have compounded over the

1074
00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:24,319
last two years

1075
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:27,119
that it's the same story over and over

1076
00:41:31,510 --> 00:41:29,040
and over again

1077
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:31,520
not only with uaps in these three videos

1078
00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:34,000
nick but it's exoplanets and it's the

1079
00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:36,240
search for aliens and it's fast radio

1080
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:37,040
burst

1081
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:39,040
and it's you know one siding after

1082
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:40,319
another that

1083
00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:45,119
uh it may be a a point of complacency

1084
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:46,160
now you know maybe

1085
00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:48,720
maybe the world is tapped out and

1086
00:41:54,309 --> 00:41:51,040
absolutely and it's

1087
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:54,319
and it's no signatures and it's

1088
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:57,280
all all these stories it's not a single

1089
00:42:01,510 --> 00:41:57,839
thing

1090
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:01,520
and it's not just ufos

1091
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:04,880
it's it's the the astronomy stories

1092
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:05,680
coming out

1093
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:07,920
it's it's the astrophysics it's the

1094
00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:09,359
theoretical physics

1095
00:42:16,150 --> 00:42:12,960
it's some of the the crazy weird science

1096
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:16,160
in the defense intelligence agency

1097
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:18,480
letter to congress on the a-tip program

1098
00:42:23,109 --> 00:42:20,480
it's all of these things taken

1099
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:23,119
holistically and here's an interesting

1100
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:23,839
little

1101
00:42:29,589 --> 00:42:27,040
thought experiment if if some of this

1102
00:42:30,069 --> 00:42:29,599
is about saying have we reached a

1103
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:30,079
tipping

1104
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:33,520
point where people do say as as you

1105
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:37,440
just in that anecdote unpacked

1106
00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:40,400
is it you know so what yeah i'm not

1107
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:42,640
surprised we always thought it was this

1108
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:46,000
if if this is a test and if

1109
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:48,240
if the answer to the question if the

1110
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:50,480
answer to the test question is yes

1111
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:53,359
we are at that point where people say so

1112
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:54,000
what

1113
00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:55,920
i always thought this was the case it's

1114
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:57,520
not a big deal

1115
00:43:01,190 --> 00:43:00,640
then the real question is what happens

1116
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:01,200
next

1117
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:04,319
if it's a test you know what is it that

1118
00:43:10,150 --> 00:43:06,400
they're planning to pull out

1119
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:10,160
now that hurdle has been cleared

1120
00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:13,200
and what is next and certainly

1121
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:16,960
with uh to the stars and

1122
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:20,240
their their group as as

1123
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:25,280
crazy as december 17th was in in 2017

1124
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:27,359
we haven't had anything out of to the

1125
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:29,280
stars since

1126
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:32,400
is there has that well run dry

1127
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:34,800
you know can they can they extract

1128
00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:36,720
anything else from the pentagon

1129
00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:38,880
will they be able to present more videos

1130
00:43:43,589 --> 00:43:40,400
more informations

1131
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:43,599
uh from uh uh and testimony

1132
00:43:48,069 --> 00:43:46,400
from others inside of the pentagon or

1133
00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:48,079
has that closed down

1134
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:49,760
you know what's next for somebody like

1135
00:43:52,870 --> 00:43:51,440
to the stars

1136
00:43:55,109 --> 00:43:52,880
well i think when you listen to the

1137
00:43:56,309 --> 00:43:55,119
people like lou elizondo and chris

1138
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:56,319
mellon i mean

1139
00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:58,480
firstly they'll they'll say yes of

1140
00:44:03,030 --> 00:43:59,680
course as

1141
00:44:05,349 --> 00:44:03,040
as we were discussing before the break

1142
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:05,359
there are not just three military

1143
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:07,520
encounters with ufos there are

1144
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:10,079
dozens hundreds maybe more so so there

1145
00:44:15,030 --> 00:44:11,920
are more videos to come

1146
00:44:17,430 --> 00:44:15,040
um people like lou and chris talk about

1147
00:44:20,309 --> 00:44:17,440
some of the lobbying that's gone on

1148
00:44:23,109 --> 00:44:20,319
behind the scenes with congress

1149
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:23,119
chris mellon has draft some drafted some

1150
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:24,240
legislation

1151
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:28,079
that he would like to go forward um

1152
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:30,720
you know to make reporting of this uh

1153
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:31,440
easier

1154
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:34,800
within the system um

1155
00:44:38,470 --> 00:44:36,400
there are lots of different things going

1156
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:38,480
on that ttsa have

1157
00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:41,520
have their um

1158
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:44,000
their research agreement with the us

1159
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:44,640
army

1160
00:44:49,510 --> 00:44:47,839
on the materials aspect of all this

1161
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:49,520
and this is just the stuff they've told

1162
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:51,839
you about i mean obviously

1163
00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:53,839
when you're talking about the spooky

1164
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:55,599
world of intelligence there's probably

1165
00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:57,359
an awful lot that these people aren't

1166
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:00,079
saying so so i think we're we're looking

1167
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:02,000
at just the tip of the iceberg

1168
00:45:05,190 --> 00:45:04,480
and and clearly there is more going on

1169
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:05,200
we know

1170
00:45:10,870 --> 00:45:08,400
has been

1171
00:45:11,829 --> 00:45:10,880
briefed on this this isn't some wild

1172
00:45:15,109 --> 00:45:11,839
claim in a

1173
00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:15,119
conspiracy blog he came out and said so

1174
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:18,560
on on abc news he said yeah i i

1175
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:21,920
i went to a short meeting on this and

1176
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:23,920
no one asked the obvious follow-up

1177
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:25,440
question well wait a minute

1178
00:45:29,109 --> 00:45:26,720
you know what do you mean you went to a

1179
00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:29,119
short meeting on this two years ago the

1180
00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:31,040
official line was we're not interested

1181
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:32,480
in this why are you going to a meeting

1182
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:33,359
on something

1183
00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:37,200
the us government isn't doing

1184
00:45:43,990 --> 00:45:40,560
then we had mark warner and

1185
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:44,000
jean sheehan saying in the intelligence

1186
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:45,520
committee in the armed services

1187
00:45:50,069 --> 00:45:47,599
committee that they've been briefed

1188
00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:50,079
various other senators being briefed

1189
00:45:55,750 --> 00:45:52,079
there's a lot going on

1190
00:45:58,790 --> 00:45:55,760
yes uh but do you think that

1191
00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:58,800
uh the the pentagon and the united

1192
00:46:03,990 --> 00:46:00,160
states navy the air force

1193
00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:04,000
has been uh suspicious suspiciously

1194
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:06,319
silent on all of this it's just been the

1195
00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:08,240
navy in the pentagon but

1196
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:11,760
uh that maybe these three videos

1197
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:14,480
uh were mishandled from the beginning

1198
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:14,800
and

1199
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:17,920
anything else is going to be freaking

1200
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:18,960
locked down

1201
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:21,200
i that there will not be anything else

1202
00:46:25,030 --> 00:46:22,240
released

1203
00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:25,040
well two two points on that firstly it

1204
00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:26,720
was very interesting when you look at

1205
00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:28,000
the text

1206
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:31,119
of the statement that the department of

1207
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:32,160
defense

1208
00:46:39,990 --> 00:46:36,160
issued on april 27th they referred they

1209
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:40,000
deliberately used the word unauthorized

1210
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:43,680
to describe the previous release of this

1211
00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:46,000
what that says to me is that there's a

1212
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:46,960
little bit of a

1213
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:50,720
turf war going on here maybe between

1214
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:54,480
the people doing it now and the people

1215
00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:56,880
and and by that i mean lou alexander and

1216
00:46:59,829 --> 00:46:57,680
chris mellon

1217
00:47:01,750 --> 00:46:59,839
people who used to be doing it so that's

1218
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:01,760
one thing that the deliberate

1219
00:47:05,790 --> 00:47:04,560
provocative shot across the bowels use

1220
00:47:07,829 --> 00:47:05,800
of the word

1221
00:47:08,790 --> 00:47:07,839
unauthorized i mean that's that's a

1222
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:08,800
strong word

1223
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:12,000
yes it is um you know the

1224
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:15,040
the other point with this is that you

1225
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:16,800
mentioned the air force and the lack of

1226
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:18,000
the air force look

1227
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:20,880
here's what happened the u.s navy

1228
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:22,400
started

1229
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:25,440
issuing these statements and uh

1230
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:27,520
one of the most famous ones of course

1231
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:28,960
was when they

1232
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:31,760
confirmed to stephen greenstreet at the

1233
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:33,200
new york post

1234
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:35,200
they they used the phrase unidentified

1235
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:37,920
aerial phenomena and said yes atip

1236
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:41,599
did look at this and and this was a

1237
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:44,960
a sort of again a 180 degree

1238
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:46,880
degree turn on what they'd said

1239
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:48,480
previously

1240
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:51,280
but what happened was that the

1241
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:52,000
department

1242
00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:55,440
of defense essentially took this over

1243
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:56,480
from the navy

1244
00:47:59,589 --> 00:47:58,079
and they said look we don't want the

1245
00:48:01,030 --> 00:47:59,599
navy doing this we don't want the air

1246
00:48:02,470 --> 00:48:01,040
force doing this we're going to do this

1247
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:02,480
on a tri-service

1248
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:05,599
basis dod essentially took

1249
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:08,160
this off the navy and that's why you

1250
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:09,920
don't hear from the navy anymore

1251
00:48:13,109 --> 00:48:11,359
and it's why you don't hear much out of

1252
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:13,119
the air force

1253
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:15,680
it's a very interesting way to to look

1254
00:48:19,829 --> 00:48:16,400
at it

1255
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:19,839
and the other part in is that now that

1256
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:21,280
chris

1257
00:48:28,150 --> 00:48:26,720
don't have an official capacity or an

1258
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:28,160
office or anything like that at the

1259
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:29,280
pentagon

1260
00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:32,720
uh any longer right

1261
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:35,440
that we know of absolutely much like

1262
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:36,000
yourself

1263
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:40,160
nick but the point being

1264
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:43,920
uh who is uh who is on the inside to uh

1265
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:47,520
to push these uh videos out and get

1266
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:50,319
uh release form signed if if lou and

1267
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:51,920
chris aren't there there has to be

1268
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:52,800
somebody

1269
00:48:57,270 --> 00:48:55,520
uh that is in that position that they

1270
00:48:59,109 --> 00:48:57,280
used to have right

1271
00:49:01,030 --> 00:48:59,119
yes absolutely somebody's doing this

1272
00:49:03,190 --> 00:49:01,040
look nobody's

1273
00:49:04,549 --> 00:49:03,200
pretending for a moment that ufo

1274
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:04,559
sightings have stopped

1275
00:49:08,069 --> 00:49:06,720
clearly they haven't right so somebody

1276
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:08,079
is still doing this

1277
00:49:12,309 --> 00:49:10,640
the portfolio still exists you don't

1278
00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:12,319
suddenly stop

1279
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:15,040
being interested in incursions into

1280
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,079
restricted military

1281
00:49:20,630 --> 00:49:18,319
airspace of course you don't so so

1282
00:49:23,349 --> 00:49:20,640
somebody's doing this but as ever

1283
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:23,359
the most interesting players in the game

1284
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:24,720
are the ones whose names

1285
00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:26,640
you've never even heard of that's right

1286
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:27,760
that's right and

1287
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,480
and and i often wonder as we head into

1288
00:49:35,109 --> 00:49:32,160
the break

1289
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:35,119
how much inside of the pentagon that

1290
00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:37,760
these three videos have been discussed

1291
00:49:42,870 --> 00:49:40,720
i mean like talked about and i have a

1292
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:42,880
fear my pandora's box

1293
00:49:45,990 --> 00:49:44,880
is that nobody in the pentagon gives a

1294
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:46,000
rat's ass

1295
00:49:49,510 --> 00:49:48,720
about these videos and nobody's talking

1296
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:49,520
about them

1297
00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:51,440
and that all of this is a part of the

1298
00:49:55,829 --> 00:49:52,640
ufo community

1299
00:49:58,549 --> 00:49:55,839
and our discussion and the pentagon

1300
00:50:00,630 --> 00:49:58,559
has way moved on because the more that

1301
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:00,640
we talk about this on the outside

1302
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:03,440
the more that the attention is lifted

1303
00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:04,400
off of them

1304
00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:06,400
so they can go and do their other things

1305
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:09,040
that's my pandora's box

1306
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:11,440
well of course one person who who made a

1307
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:13,520
an enthusiastic comment

1308
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:15,680
about the the videos the other day was

1309
00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:16,640
the president

1310
00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:19,119
and he said in his his conversation with

1311
00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:19,839
reuters

1312
00:50:22,870 --> 00:50:22,559
he said that's one hell of a video yeah

1313
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:22,880
and

1314
00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:26,240
it isn't that you just said uh you know

1315
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:26,960
reversal

1316
00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:29,200
you know and flip-flop a couple of times

1317
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:30,160
during this show

1318
00:50:34,309 --> 00:50:32,160
couldn't agree with you more because

1319
00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:34,319
last year with tucker

1320
00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:37,680
uh the president said you know what i've

1321
00:50:41,349 --> 00:50:40,000
seen the videos and i don't see ufos but

1322
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:41,359
that doesn't mean that the pilots

1323
00:50:46,630 --> 00:50:42,880
haven't seen something interesting

1324
00:50:48,790 --> 00:50:46,640
of course i'm paraphrasing a year later

1325
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:48,800
the president now seems to be saying

1326
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:50,559
something else

1327
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:54,480
why would he flip-flop yeah and and if

1328
00:50:57,990 --> 00:50:54,960
you look

1329
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:58,000
at the president gave three video three

1330
00:51:02,230 --> 00:50:58,559
videos

1331
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:02,240
three interviews on this yes abc

1332
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:05,359
right yeah abc news uh

1333
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:09,440
carlson on fox and most recently reuters

1334
00:51:13,109 --> 00:51:12,400
um on on one of those quote the one

1335
00:51:15,190 --> 00:51:13,119
quote that

1336
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:15,200
is maybe most interesting is when he

1337
00:51:19,109 --> 00:51:17,680
said um our pilots are seeing something

1338
00:51:20,950 --> 00:51:19,119
i'm paraphrasing but he said

1339
00:51:24,069 --> 00:51:20,960
there does seem to be something a little

1340
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:24,079
bit different and we're watching

1341
00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:26,880
yeah yeah very interesting very exciting

1342
00:51:30,549 --> 00:51:27,520
times it's

1343
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:30,559
never been quite like this

1344
00:51:35,349 --> 00:51:33,119
we would have to go back to the original

1345
00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:35,359
uh press briefings at the pentagon in

1346
00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:36,800
1952

1347
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:39,839
right i mean it's really been that long

1348
00:51:43,829 --> 00:51:41,520
let's take a break right here

1349
00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:43,839
our guest tonight nick pope i am your

1350
00:51:47,349 --> 00:51:45,920
host jimmy church when we come back

1351
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:47,359
nick are you ready you want to talk a

1352
00:51:51,589 --> 00:51:49,040
little rendlesham

1353
00:51:53,670 --> 00:51:51,599
sure thing let's do it take a quick

1354
00:52:05,750 --> 00:51:53,680
break nick pope is our guest stay with

1355
00:52:16,829 --> 00:52:05,760
us we'll be right back

1356
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:19,740
so

1357
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:32,160
[Music]

1358
00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:37,910
welcome back fade to black i am your

1359
00:52:41,270 --> 00:52:39,280
host jimmy church all right

1360
00:52:43,030 --> 00:52:41,280
tonight nick pope is here and if you

1361
00:52:49,349 --> 00:52:43,040
ever miss a live

1362
00:52:50,470 --> 00:52:49,359
go to jimmychurchradio.com and click on

1363
00:52:52,069 --> 00:52:50,480
the podcast

1364
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:52,079
banner right there get our podcast we

1365
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:55,040
have over 1200 shows right there in the

1366
00:52:58,870 --> 00:52:56,000
archives

1367
00:52:59,990 --> 00:52:58,880
for just two dollars per month including

1368
00:53:02,710 --> 00:53:00,000
all of those excellent

1369
00:53:04,150 --> 00:53:02,720
shows with nick pope over the years

1370
00:53:05,589 --> 00:53:04,160
that's right nick that's the reason to

1371
00:53:08,630 --> 00:53:05,599
get our podcast right there

1372
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:08,640
your previous episodes do you feel

1373
00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:11,839
nick as we move on to rundleshim do you

1374
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:13,280
feel sometimes that

1375
00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:16,559
you somehow reveal something that

1376
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:19,040
maybe later you regret on fade to black

1377
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:19,920
because

1378
00:53:23,510 --> 00:53:23,040
uh maybe i exert too much pressure do

1379
00:53:24,790 --> 00:53:23,520
you ever

1380
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:24,800
feel that at the end of the show where

1381
00:53:30,309 --> 00:53:26,640
you're just like man i sh

1382
00:53:32,069 --> 00:53:30,319
i need i need a redo

1383
00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:32,079
you know it's always difficult there's a

1384
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:33,599
line and

1385
00:53:36,630 --> 00:53:35,760
i i had this discussion with lou

1386
00:53:38,470 --> 00:53:36,640
actually and

1387
00:53:39,750 --> 00:53:38,480
and you know neither of us are

1388
00:53:43,589 --> 00:53:39,760
whistleblowers

1389
00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:43,599
both of us are you know very loyal to

1390
00:53:48,230 --> 00:53:44,000
our

1391
00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:48,240
respective countries and and

1392
00:53:54,950 --> 00:53:51,839
the point is we know where the line is

1393
00:53:57,190 --> 00:53:54,960
it's difficult sometimes to

1394
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:57,200
walk close enough that to that line to

1395
00:54:00,950 --> 00:53:58,640
say something meaningful

1396
00:54:03,030 --> 00:54:00,960
and not cross it but i think i think

1397
00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:03,040
both of us know

1398
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:06,880
you know where would be a step too far

1399
00:54:13,750 --> 00:54:10,000
yeah well and here's here's uh

1400
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:13,760
excuse me here's my point

1401
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:16,880
i don't think that

1402
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:20,880
any government would throw

1403
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:24,000
a past employee in jail

1404
00:54:30,309 --> 00:54:27,280
or prosecute or come down on them

1405
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:30,319
for speaking about ufos i

1406
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:33,440
i just and and and presenting facts i

1407
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:33,920
don't

1408
00:54:40,950 --> 00:54:38,079
if they did

1409
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:40,960
then that hey that person is a martyr

1410
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:41,760
number one

1411
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:44,079
they fell on their own sword and it says

1412
00:54:46,230 --> 00:54:45,440
that everything that they said is the

1413
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:46,240
truth

1414
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:48,640
and the second part about it is they

1415
00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:49,359
would have to

1416
00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:52,880
open up a you know decades of lies

1417
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:54,480
and that would have to come forward

1418
00:54:58,150 --> 00:54:56,240
about them so therefore

1419
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:58,160
i don't think anybody would would do

1420
00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:59,359
anything to any

1421
00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:01,440
uh employer i don't think the feds would

1422
00:55:06,710 --> 00:55:03,040
throw somebody in jail

1423
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:06,720
for speaking about ufos in any capacity

1424
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:08,880
it's an interesting point and and i go

1425
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:09,839
back to

1426
00:55:13,549 --> 00:55:12,319
to something i said a few moments ago

1427
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:13,559
use of the word

1428
00:55:18,950 --> 00:55:16,720
unauthorized by the pentagon um

1429
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:18,960
on april 27th was very interesting and

1430
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:20,640
it did

1431
00:55:26,309 --> 00:55:22,640
strike me as being a shot across the

1432
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:26,319
bowers look as i see it

1433
00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:28,079
the fundamental issue is you don't

1434
00:55:34,309 --> 00:55:30,000
discuss classified information

1435
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:34,319
on any subject and as we know people

1436
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:35,200
who've

1437
00:55:39,109 --> 00:55:37,680
divulged classified information without

1438
00:55:42,390 --> 00:55:39,119
proper authority

1439
00:55:45,510 --> 00:55:42,400
um edward snowden chelsea manning

1440
00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:45,520
the full resources of the state

1441
00:55:49,109 --> 00:55:47,119
and the criminal justice system are

1442
00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:49,119
brought to bear upon them

1443
00:55:54,069 --> 00:55:52,559
now i i take your point though with ufos

1444
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:54,079
it would be much more difficult

1445
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:55,920
because for decades the government has

1446
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:57,280
said there's nothing to it

1447
00:56:01,589 --> 00:56:00,559
right so swamp gas so so it would be

1448
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:01,599
very difficult

1449
00:56:05,510 --> 00:56:04,880
to to then throw those full resources of

1450
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:05,520
the state

1451
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:08,960
after those people on a subject

1452
00:56:13,510 --> 00:56:11,760
which you've just said is just swamp gas

1453
00:56:16,150 --> 00:56:13,520
now you could fall back on

1454
00:56:17,829 --> 00:56:16,160
well it wasn't what they said but it was

1455
00:56:20,710 --> 00:56:17,839
what they disclosed about

1456
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:20,720
methods and sources of of gathering

1457
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:21,680
information

1458
00:56:24,789 --> 00:56:23,760
but uh it gets you into difficult

1459
00:56:27,270 --> 00:56:24,799
territory

1460
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:27,280
yeah it it certainly would it certainly

1461
00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:28,400
would but

1462
00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:32,240
i just i just don't see i i i can't

1463
00:56:35,829 --> 00:56:35,040
everything in court would have to come

1464
00:56:39,510 --> 00:56:35,839
out

1465
00:56:41,670 --> 00:56:39,520
right everything everything would have

1466
00:56:45,910 --> 00:56:41,680
to come out in court there's just no way

1467
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:48,710
you know it would have to be uh held uh

1468
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:49,920
what is the saying in

1469
00:56:54,630 --> 00:56:52,880
in the uk we use the saying in camera

1470
00:56:55,190 --> 00:56:54,640
you you would have to go into a sort of

1471
00:56:58,069 --> 00:56:55,200
closed

1472
00:57:00,230 --> 00:56:58,079
private session and that in and of

1473
00:57:01,510 --> 00:57:00,240
itself would tell you something why are

1474
00:57:04,230 --> 00:57:01,520
they going into a closed

1475
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:04,240
session on ufos i thought this was just

1476
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:05,599
swamp gas

1477
00:57:08,710 --> 00:57:08,240
yeah what um i want to get to rendell

1478
00:57:10,870 --> 00:57:08,720
shim

1479
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:10,880
and also tonight i want to ask you about

1480
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:13,119
brazil too and what is going on down

1481
00:57:16,789 --> 00:57:13,680
there

1482
00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:16,799
let's swing over to randall shim uh

1483
00:57:20,549 --> 00:57:19,520
we had uh nick redford on the show i'm

1484
00:57:24,069 --> 00:57:20,559
going to

1485
00:57:26,789 --> 00:57:24,079
say two weeks ago

1486
00:57:28,789 --> 00:57:26,799
um discussing his new book the rendal

1487
00:57:31,990 --> 00:57:28,799
shum forest ufo

1488
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:32,000
incident and uh that it's a

1489
00:57:36,150 --> 00:57:35,280
a government cover-up of uh government

1490
00:57:39,270 --> 00:57:36,160
experiments

1491
00:57:41,510 --> 00:57:39,280
okay on on military personnel

1492
00:57:42,549 --> 00:57:41,520
we'll get to that in a second uh john

1493
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:42,559
burroughs was

1494
00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:45,280
listening to the broadcast that night

1495
00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:45,680
and

1496
00:57:49,990 --> 00:57:48,160
attempted to call into the show i didn't

1497
00:57:52,069 --> 00:57:50,000
pick up but he did call in

1498
00:57:53,910 --> 00:57:52,079
the next night which was open lines and

1499
00:57:54,870 --> 00:57:53,920
we ended up talking to john for about 90

1500
00:57:58,069 --> 00:57:54,880
minutes

1501
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:58,079
and then last week we had jim penniston

1502
00:58:01,910 --> 00:57:58,880
on to discuss

1503
00:58:05,190 --> 00:58:01,920
his new book and the uh

1504
00:58:07,349 --> 00:58:05,200
the randall shim enigma and of course uh

1505
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:07,359
nick redfearn and some of the things

1506
00:58:12,950 --> 00:58:09,599
that he is postulating with his

1507
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:12,960
theories uh in in the new book when

1508
00:58:19,589 --> 00:58:16,240
you look back just like atip right

1509
00:58:21,270 --> 00:58:19,599
in the navy the story keeps coming back

1510
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:21,280
keeps coming back and you've been

1511
00:58:26,789 --> 00:58:23,119
involved with rental shims since

1512
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:26,799
uh the early days uh it's is this a

1513
00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:27,680
story that

1514
00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:30,880
is is never going to go away

1515
00:58:36,309 --> 00:58:33,760
well to coin a phrase just when i

1516
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:36,319
thought i was out they pulled me back in

1517
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:39,440
that's right that's right

1518
00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:42,960
you know i don't know

1519
00:58:47,750 --> 00:58:46,000
how far i want to go with this but i

1520
00:58:52,150 --> 00:58:47,760
wrote of course

1521
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:52,160
my own book on on this in what 2014

1522
00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:54,880
so what's that six six years ago

1523
00:58:58,630 --> 00:58:56,880
co-wrote it with

1524
00:59:01,190 --> 00:58:58,640
john burroughs and jim panistan of

1525
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:01,200
course encounter in rendering forest

1526
00:59:07,109 --> 00:59:04,640
and we went into i mean nick redfern

1527
00:59:09,430 --> 00:59:07,119
i've not read nick's book

1528
00:59:10,710 --> 00:59:09,440
but i from what i've seen of his his

1529
00:59:13,109 --> 00:59:10,720
interviews and

1530
00:59:13,910 --> 00:59:13,119
a couple of media articles about his

1531
00:59:15,829 --> 00:59:13,920
book

1532
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:15,839
he goes down the road as you just said

1533
00:59:18,710 --> 00:59:17,760
of this being some sort of government

1534
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:18,720
experiment

1535
00:59:27,589 --> 00:59:23,280
um see how people react holograms

1536
00:59:30,549 --> 00:59:27,599
mind control whatever um john jim and i

1537
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:30,559
kind of covered this actually six years

1538
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:31,440
ago i'm

1539
00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:34,240
in i don't know what is chapter nine

1540
00:59:38,150 --> 00:59:35,760
chapter nine of our book it's

1541
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:38,160
it's this there's a few pages on it and

1542
00:59:43,349 --> 00:59:39,599
we went into all this

1543
00:59:46,630 --> 00:59:43,359
uh ghost guns the idea that

1544
00:59:47,190 --> 00:59:46,640
that you know technology exists to

1545
00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:47,200
project

1546
00:59:51,430 --> 00:59:49,440
holograms which would be so realistic

1547
00:59:54,309 --> 00:59:51,440
that that they could be used

1548
00:59:55,030 --> 00:59:54,319
for military purposes you know you could

1549
01:00:03,430 --> 00:59:55,040
fake

1550
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:03,440
uh russians coming through the full the

1551
01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:04,799
gap whatever you want

1552
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:08,720
to to do with the ghost gun um

1553
01:00:12,950 --> 01:00:12,079
hallucinogenic drugs some combination of

1554
01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:12,960
this we

1555
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:15,920
we covered all this and you know we

1556
01:00:19,910 --> 01:00:16,640
looked at it

1557
01:00:20,870 --> 01:00:19,920
and frankly without wanting to rain on

1558
01:00:23,750 --> 01:00:20,880
nick's parade we

1559
01:00:24,309 --> 01:00:23,760
we weren't particularly convinced by any

1560
01:00:27,109 --> 01:00:24,319
of this

1561
01:00:28,710 --> 01:00:27,119
and and you know nick's nick's obviously

1562
01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:28,720
on the outside looking in

1563
01:00:31,910 --> 01:00:30,799
john jim and i have been on the inside

1564
01:00:34,309 --> 01:00:31,920
looking out we

1565
01:00:35,109 --> 01:00:34,319
perhaps see it fundamentally different

1566
01:00:39,109 --> 01:00:35,119
ways but

1567
01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:39,119
um yeah we we covered this um

1568
01:00:46,950 --> 01:00:42,640
six years ago and and as i say

1569
01:00:50,230 --> 01:00:46,960
i'm not convinced the uh

1570
01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:50,240
the the basis of nick's approach

1571
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:53,440
to this uh nick redfern um

1572
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:55,280
which i think he maintained pretty

1573
01:00:59,030 --> 01:00:57,119
strong during the show

1574
01:01:00,789 --> 01:00:59,040
especially with somebody like me because

1575
01:01:03,270 --> 01:01:00,799
i have

1576
01:01:04,870 --> 01:01:03,280
my views on rental shim i think it's the

1577
01:01:07,990 --> 01:01:04,880
number one or the number two most

1578
01:01:11,829 --> 01:01:08,000
significant ufo event in history

1579
01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:11,839
and everybody is still alive it's modern

1580
01:01:15,109 --> 01:01:12,720
it's not

1581
01:01:17,190 --> 01:01:15,119
in the distant past so all of the

1582
01:01:17,670 --> 01:01:17,200
witnesses we can interview in the first

1583
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:17,680
hand

1584
01:01:21,589 --> 01:01:20,160
today which we all have done including

1585
01:01:23,829 --> 01:01:21,599
yourself

1586
01:01:25,430 --> 01:01:23,839
we don't have second third fourth fifth

1587
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:25,440
hand accounts that are going back

1588
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:27,599
70 years this is a different situation

1589
01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:29,040
with rendlesham

1590
01:01:35,430 --> 01:01:32,640
but nick has maintained that

1591
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:35,440
these are just theories i have done the

1592
01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:36,240
interviews

1593
01:01:42,309 --> 01:01:40,079
i have looked at uh what evidence i can

1594
01:01:43,190 --> 01:01:42,319
and i am putting this out there for

1595
01:01:44,710 --> 01:01:43,200
discussion

1596
01:01:46,470 --> 01:01:44,720
i'm not saying that this is what

1597
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:46,480
happened in reynoldshim forest

1598
01:01:49,990 --> 01:01:48,240
i'm saying that this is something that

1599
01:01:52,470 --> 01:01:50,000
we should consider

1600
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:52,480
is it something that you would consider

1601
01:01:57,190 --> 01:01:53,280
uh

1602
01:01:59,910 --> 01:01:57,200
it wasn't e.t

1603
01:02:01,270 --> 01:01:59,920
at all and and anything else but it

1604
01:02:02,150 --> 01:02:01,280
could have been something much more

1605
01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:02,160
terrestrial

1606
01:02:05,670 --> 01:02:03,920
is it something to consider to put on

1607
01:02:08,230 --> 01:02:05,680
the table and discuss

1608
01:02:10,230 --> 01:02:08,240
sure it's something to consider and we

1609
01:02:13,829 --> 01:02:10,240
considered it six years ago

1610
01:02:16,710 --> 01:02:13,839
um i in in one sense

1611
01:02:17,109 --> 01:02:16,720
i agree with nick i mean all these are

1612
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:17,119
just

1613
01:02:21,109 --> 01:02:20,400
theories at the end of encounter in

1614
01:02:24,630 --> 01:02:21,119
rendelsham

1615
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:24,640
forest john jim and i did not say

1616
01:02:30,870 --> 01:02:28,000
because it would have been arrogant and

1617
01:02:31,589 --> 01:02:30,880
incorrect we did not say to to our

1618
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:31,599
readers

1619
01:02:35,349 --> 01:02:34,559
and now we're going to reveal to you the

1620
01:02:39,910 --> 01:02:35,359
truth

1621
01:02:42,710 --> 01:02:39,920
we don't know

1622
01:02:43,750 --> 01:02:42,720
and that's to this day the official

1623
01:02:45,510 --> 01:02:43,760
position of

1624
01:02:46,789 --> 01:02:45,520
of both the british government and the

1625
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:46,799
united states government

1626
01:02:50,069 --> 01:02:48,960
we don't know so yeah nick redfern's

1627
01:02:52,150 --> 01:02:50,079
right put

1628
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:52,160
put the theory out there for discussion

1629
01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:53,280
i mean we put it out

1630
01:03:01,430 --> 01:02:57,359
six six years ago um nick obviously has

1631
01:03:02,069 --> 01:03:01,440
has i'm sure dived much deeper into this

1632
01:03:12,630 --> 01:03:02,079
and

1633
01:03:15,990 --> 01:03:12,640
if he's taking

1634
01:03:18,950 --> 01:03:16,000
a very healthy approach on this uh

1635
01:03:19,270 --> 01:03:18,960
i.e the same approach we took uh let's

1636
01:03:22,069 --> 01:03:19,280
not

1637
01:03:23,029 --> 01:03:22,079
try and kid people that we know for sure

1638
01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:23,039
what happened

1639
01:03:26,870 --> 01:03:25,280
let's just put some theories out there

1640
01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:26,880
and at the end of the day

1641
01:03:33,190 --> 01:03:30,720
let readers make up their own minds

1642
01:03:34,710 --> 01:03:33,200
one of the uh the difficult positions

1643
01:03:38,069 --> 01:03:34,720
that i have

1644
01:03:41,270 --> 01:03:38,079
uh with this is the suggestion of a mild

1645
01:03:41,910 --> 01:03:41,280
hallucinogenic drug being fogged and

1646
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:41,920
misted

1647
01:03:45,589 --> 01:03:44,640
into rendulchem forest and and this was

1648
01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:45,599
part of

1649
01:03:49,109 --> 01:03:48,720
this experiment because as far as i know

1650
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:49,119
nick

1651
01:03:52,710 --> 01:03:52,079
i don't know how much uh hallucinating

1652
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:52,720
drugs

1653
01:03:57,430 --> 01:03:56,160
you have done in your past but um as far

1654
01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:57,440
as i know

1655
01:04:00,870 --> 01:03:59,599
it's okay you don't have to answer um as

1656
01:04:03,589 --> 01:04:00,880
far as i know

1657
01:04:06,230 --> 01:04:03,599
uh two or three people on the same drug

1658
01:04:07,750 --> 01:04:06,240
are not going to hallucinate the exact

1659
01:04:09,910 --> 01:04:07,760
same thing

1660
01:04:11,109 --> 01:04:09,920
that is where we're kind of pushing the

1661
01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:11,119
line here

1662
01:04:15,109 --> 01:04:13,599
where if you're going to be confronted

1663
01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:15,119
with a difficult

1664
01:04:20,150 --> 01:04:17,760
hurdle to jump over i think that's the

1665
01:04:23,510 --> 01:04:20,160
first one don't you

1666
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:23,520
yes now there are to be fair and you can

1667
01:04:29,750 --> 01:04:27,599
you can read this in in um uh

1668
01:04:30,710 --> 01:04:29,760
you know diagnostic and statistical

1669
01:04:34,950 --> 01:04:30,720
manual

1670
01:04:39,109 --> 01:04:34,960
um there are what do you call them uh

1671
01:04:41,829 --> 01:04:39,119
like foliarder and foliar pleasure

1672
01:04:43,309 --> 01:04:41,839
so so there are there are some

1673
01:04:46,470 --> 01:04:43,319
interesting

1674
01:04:46,950 --> 01:04:46,480
psychological conditions where you can

1675
01:04:49,750 --> 01:04:46,960
get

1676
01:04:53,109 --> 01:04:49,760
shared hallucinations not not

1677
01:04:55,750 --> 01:04:53,119
necessarily anything to do with drugs

1678
01:04:57,670 --> 01:04:55,760
and and then on on drugs that's

1679
01:04:58,470 --> 01:04:57,680
interesting as well because of course we

1680
01:05:01,990 --> 01:04:58,480
know

1681
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:02,000
with with things such as mkultra

1682
01:05:07,510 --> 01:05:05,520
and the church committee we we know that

1683
01:05:09,670 --> 01:05:07,520
there has been how shall i put it

1684
01:05:13,829 --> 01:05:09,680
tactfully a certain sort of dark

1685
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:13,839
past when it it comes to all this

1686
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:16,319
and one interesting thing that we did

1687
01:05:21,670 --> 01:05:18,000
turn up in our book

1688
01:05:24,390 --> 01:05:21,680
is despite the church committee uh

1689
01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:24,400
recommending that all this cease we

1690
01:05:27,589 --> 01:05:25,280
found

1691
01:05:28,710 --> 01:05:27,599
an air force office of special

1692
01:05:32,309 --> 01:05:28,720
investigations

1693
01:05:33,589 --> 01:05:32,319
manual contemporaneous to the rendelsham

1694
01:05:37,109 --> 01:05:33,599
forest incident

1695
01:05:40,950 --> 01:05:37,119
so 1980 which said

1696
01:05:44,069 --> 01:05:40,960
if you want to use drugs or hypnosis

1697
01:05:46,069 --> 01:05:44,079
in an interrogation you should put that

1698
01:05:48,549 --> 01:05:46,079
request up the chain of command

1699
01:05:49,109 --> 01:05:48,559
well why that's interesting of course is

1700
01:05:50,950 --> 01:05:49,119
that

1701
01:05:53,109 --> 01:05:50,960
after the church committee what it

1702
01:05:55,750 --> 01:05:53,119
should have said is these techniques are

1703
01:05:59,190 --> 01:05:55,760
not to be used at all

1704
01:06:02,470 --> 01:05:59,200
yeah that's right and uh

1705
01:06:03,270 --> 01:06:02,480
the the mk ultra question especially

1706
01:06:05,029 --> 01:06:03,280
when

1707
01:06:07,029 --> 01:06:05,039
we're talking about conspiracies and

1708
01:06:08,630 --> 01:06:07,039
with this stuff actually happen or would

1709
01:06:12,309 --> 01:06:08,640
our government do it

1710
01:06:15,109 --> 01:06:12,319
through those hearings and the blatant

1711
01:06:17,589 --> 01:06:15,119
instructions from the cia to everybody

1712
01:06:20,870 --> 01:06:17,599
across the united states which was

1713
01:06:22,390 --> 01:06:20,880
shred your files right and so everything

1714
01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:22,400
was destroyed except for

1715
01:06:27,029 --> 01:06:24,960
a couple of hundred pages that are still

1716
01:06:28,309 --> 01:06:27,039
around today for historical documents

1717
01:06:31,029 --> 01:06:28,319
but they prove

1718
01:06:32,230 --> 01:06:31,039
without a doubt that these experiments

1719
01:06:34,150 --> 01:06:32,240
were going on and we know the

1720
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:34,160
classification of the secret program it

1721
01:06:39,029 --> 01:06:34,960
was called

1722
01:06:40,230 --> 01:06:39,039
mk ultra right yes and every time i hear

1723
01:06:42,710 --> 01:06:40,240
somebody say

1724
01:06:45,029 --> 01:06:42,720
oh the government would never do that i

1725
01:06:45,510 --> 01:06:45,039
just laugh to myself and say oh yes they

1726
01:06:48,549 --> 01:06:45,520
would

1727
01:06:50,950 --> 01:06:48,559
yeah it's called mk ultra

1728
01:06:53,190 --> 01:06:50,960
now there's a okay uh there's another

1729
01:06:57,349 --> 01:06:53,200
element to this and i did discuss this

1730
01:07:01,510 --> 01:06:57,359
with uh jim last week uh peniston

1731
01:07:02,470 --> 01:07:01,520
which is if if uh the use of some type

1732
01:07:05,510 --> 01:07:02,480
of

1733
01:07:07,670 --> 01:07:05,520
uh holographic uh technology whatever it

1734
01:07:10,710 --> 01:07:07,680
is some type of projection

1735
01:07:14,309 --> 01:07:10,720
uh technology uh is one thing

1736
01:07:18,069 --> 01:07:14,319
up in the skies but jim

1737
01:07:20,549 --> 01:07:18,079
had a physical craft in the woods

1738
01:07:21,589 --> 01:07:20,559
that he touched that others also

1739
01:07:24,390 --> 01:07:21,599
witnessed

1740
01:07:24,789 --> 01:07:24,400
in the woods halt and his crew and of

1741
01:07:27,029 --> 01:07:24,799
course

1742
01:07:28,230 --> 01:07:27,039
others now this is what is interesting

1743
01:07:31,029 --> 01:07:28,240
with that

1744
01:07:33,430 --> 01:07:31,039
is jim couldn't have reached out and

1745
01:07:36,230 --> 01:07:33,440
touched and physically described

1746
01:07:37,430 --> 01:07:36,240
a physical craft if it was a holographic

1747
01:07:39,430 --> 01:07:37,440
projection

1748
01:07:40,870 --> 01:07:39,440
this is something else that is a hurdle

1749
01:07:43,910 --> 01:07:40,880
that seems very high

1750
01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:43,920
to jump over uh for nick in his book

1751
01:07:48,789 --> 01:07:45,680
don't you

1752
01:07:51,190 --> 01:07:48,799
yes i i mean nobody's denying that

1753
01:07:51,670 --> 01:07:51,200
holographic technology exists that's

1754
01:07:54,150 --> 01:07:51,680
right

1755
01:07:55,270 --> 01:07:54,160
and i i don't like to use the phrase

1756
01:07:56,710 --> 01:07:55,280
ghost gun but

1757
01:07:59,670 --> 01:07:56,720
there's no getting away from the fact

1758
01:08:01,589 --> 01:07:59,680
that it's it's it's a phrase that

1759
01:08:03,990 --> 01:08:01,599
that people with some knowledge of this

1760
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:04,000
field are familiar with and it

1761
01:08:08,870 --> 01:08:06,799
kind of you know it kind of gives a

1762
01:08:11,589 --> 01:08:08,880
sense of what we're talking about maybe

1763
01:08:12,950 --> 01:08:11,599
but look that technology certainly

1764
01:08:16,630 --> 01:08:12,960
wasn't there in

1765
01:08:20,149 --> 01:08:16,640
december 1980 and again

1766
01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:20,159
in encounter in rendelsham forest we

1767
01:08:26,789 --> 01:08:23,279
turned up for example a document

1768
01:08:30,229 --> 01:08:26,799
on the role of behavioral science

1769
01:08:32,789 --> 01:08:30,239
in physical security and and this is

1770
01:08:33,829 --> 01:08:32,799
all you know highly classified staff at

1771
01:08:36,229 --> 01:08:33,839
the time

1772
01:08:37,110 --> 01:08:36,239
and it turns around and says look you

1773
01:08:40,390 --> 01:08:37,120
know

1774
01:08:40,630 --> 01:08:40,400
we we could maybe try and do some sort

1775
01:08:43,910 --> 01:08:40,640
of

1776
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:43,920
covert test on the guard force

1777
01:08:48,789 --> 01:08:46,480
to see how they would react but it

1778
01:08:52,149 --> 01:08:48,799
finishes up by saying

1779
01:08:53,189 --> 01:08:52,159
nobody would know nobody would be under

1780
01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:53,199
any kind of

1781
01:08:56,630 --> 01:08:55,199
uh misconception that this was anything

1782
01:09:00,550 --> 01:08:56,640
other than a test

1783
01:09:04,070 --> 01:09:00,560
you couldn't really spring it as a

1784
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:04,080
a real world event everyone would know

1785
01:09:08,149 --> 01:09:06,319
it was an exercise and there would no

1786
01:09:10,390 --> 01:09:08,159
there would be no way certainly back in

1787
01:09:11,910 --> 01:09:10,400
december 1980 there would be no way of

1788
01:09:12,870 --> 01:09:11,920
covering up the fact that it was an

1789
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:12,880
exercise

1790
01:09:18,829 --> 01:09:16,000
so the technology didn't exist

1791
01:09:20,470 --> 01:09:18,839
and and just the processes and the

1792
01:09:23,030 --> 01:09:20,480
procedures to

1793
01:09:23,590 --> 01:09:23,040
to do this kind of thing didn't exist

1794
01:09:27,349 --> 01:09:23,600
either

1795
01:09:30,390 --> 01:09:27,359
so i think i i think nick's kind of

1796
01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:30,400
you know he's he's found some

1797
01:09:37,110 --> 01:09:34,560
some genuine concepts um and he's put it

1798
01:09:40,229 --> 01:09:37,120
out there as you say i mean

1799
01:09:43,749 --> 01:09:40,239
put it on the table um

1800
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:43,759
but but i don't think it flies now

1801
01:09:50,630 --> 01:09:47,440
there was a very interesting

1802
01:09:51,030 --> 01:09:50,640
uh for me at least revelation with uh

1803
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:51,040
john

1804
01:09:54,709 --> 01:09:53,600
burroughs the night after uh nick

1805
01:09:58,709 --> 01:09:54,719
redfern

1806
01:10:02,390 --> 01:09:58,719
which was this john said

1807
01:10:05,830 --> 01:10:02,400
that uh the time

1808
01:10:09,270 --> 01:10:05,840
travel element of jim

1809
01:10:12,149 --> 01:10:09,280
peniston's uh account

1810
01:10:13,910 --> 01:10:12,159
of randall shim i'm i'm paraphrasing

1811
01:10:15,110 --> 01:10:13,920
here but i want to stay as accurate as i

1812
01:10:18,390 --> 01:10:15,120
can

1813
01:10:21,510 --> 01:10:18,400
that the time travel element was

1814
01:10:24,630 --> 01:10:21,520
brought out in burrow's own

1815
01:10:26,550 --> 01:10:24,640
regression and hypnosis sessions

1816
01:10:29,110 --> 01:10:26,560
that he didn't remember he went back

1817
01:10:32,149 --> 01:10:29,120
upon further review and listened

1818
01:10:35,189 --> 01:10:32,159
and time travel was discussed

1819
01:10:37,750 --> 01:10:35,199
in those sessions now

1820
01:10:38,229 --> 01:10:37,760
what what do you make of that part of it

1821
01:10:42,229 --> 01:10:38,239
from

1822
01:10:45,750 --> 01:10:42,239
john which seems to further cooperate

1823
01:10:47,669 --> 01:10:45,760
uh jim uh testimony

1824
01:10:48,870 --> 01:10:47,679
well it's interesting because john and

1825
01:10:51,830 --> 01:10:48,880
jim as you know

1826
01:10:52,550 --> 01:10:51,840
have have had a fairly major falling out

1827
01:10:59,110 --> 01:10:52,560
since

1828
01:10:59,990 --> 01:10:59,120
on encounter and rendlesham forest back

1829
01:11:03,590 --> 01:11:00,000
in

1830
01:11:06,709 --> 01:11:03,600
2000 well 2012-13 i guess

1831
01:11:09,750 --> 01:11:06,719
published in 2014 but um

1832
01:11:12,310 --> 01:11:09,760
the time travel aspects of all this look

1833
01:11:12,870 --> 01:11:12,320
i'm not an expert on time travel i know

1834
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:12,880
that

1835
01:11:19,590 --> 01:11:18,960
dr ronald mallett uh professor ronald

1836
01:11:22,470 --> 01:11:19,600
mallett

1837
01:11:24,870 --> 01:11:22,480
is is one of the few theoretical

1838
01:11:27,110 --> 01:11:24,880
physicists who's talked about

1839
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:27,120
time travel and and there is a

1840
01:11:30,630 --> 01:11:28,560
rendlesham connection

1841
01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:30,640
in relation to the binary code of course

1842
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:32,640
because ronald mallett

1843
01:11:39,669 --> 01:11:36,320
has said that the only practical way

1844
01:11:42,870 --> 01:11:39,679
to send a message back in time would be

1845
01:11:45,590 --> 01:11:42,880
to use binary code

1846
01:11:47,350 --> 01:11:45,600
and and you basically use spinning

1847
01:11:50,229 --> 01:11:47,360
neutrinos

1848
01:11:51,430 --> 01:11:50,239
which which have a can have a spin value

1849
01:11:54,870 --> 01:11:51,440
of up or down

1850
01:11:58,709 --> 01:11:54,880
and of course that gives you binary um

1851
01:12:00,790 --> 01:11:58,719
now the physics of this go beyond me

1852
01:12:01,750 --> 01:12:00,800
you know i know what i don't know but

1853
01:12:05,030 --> 01:12:01,760
all i can say

1854
01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:05,040
is that if john burroughs and jim

1855
01:12:08,070 --> 01:12:07,040
peniston and they are both talking about

1856
01:12:10,390 --> 01:12:08,080
time travel

1857
01:12:12,470 --> 01:12:10,400
and this is tying in with with what

1858
01:12:15,270 --> 01:12:12,480
people like professor ronald mallett

1859
01:12:17,270 --> 01:12:15,280
says i'm not sure whether people like uh

1860
01:12:19,750 --> 01:12:17,280
jack sarfati who's another

1861
01:12:20,310 --> 01:12:19,760
obviously colorful character one of

1862
01:12:22,390 --> 01:12:20,320
these

1863
01:12:23,910 --> 01:12:22,400
sort of great theoretical physicists

1864
01:12:27,350 --> 01:12:23,920
who's who's in the mix

1865
01:12:30,390 --> 01:12:27,360
here um you know time travel is

1866
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:30,400
is almost the you know the last

1867
01:12:35,110 --> 01:12:33,600
step uh with with all of this and it's a

1868
01:12:38,630 --> 01:12:35,120
step i'm not sure i

1869
01:12:41,350 --> 01:12:38,640
dare take why is that nick why

1870
01:12:43,030 --> 01:12:41,360
if if the evidence is pushing you in

1871
01:12:46,390 --> 01:12:43,040
that direction

1872
01:12:47,110 --> 01:12:46,400
why not go there well i don't know that

1873
01:12:50,149 --> 01:12:47,120
it is

1874
01:12:52,229 --> 01:12:50,159
i mean as i say we there are theoretical

1875
01:12:55,990 --> 01:12:52,239
physicists who'll talk about it

1876
01:12:58,390 --> 01:12:56,000
but i don't have the conceptual

1877
01:12:59,110 --> 01:12:58,400
understanding of it to speak to it with

1878
01:13:01,669 --> 01:12:59,120
any great

1879
01:13:04,709 --> 01:13:01,679
authority so all i can say again is i

1880
01:13:06,390 --> 01:13:04,719
know what i don't know um

1881
01:13:08,070 --> 01:13:06,400
you know it's something to look into and

1882
01:13:10,390 --> 01:13:08,080
i i don't rule it out we

1883
01:13:11,430 --> 01:13:10,400
we did discuss time travel in the book

1884
01:13:12,070 --> 01:13:11,440
when we were looking at all the

1885
01:13:15,830 --> 01:13:12,080
different

1886
01:13:18,950 --> 01:13:15,840
theories but but again i fall back on

1887
01:13:21,990 --> 01:13:18,960
interesting if true and

1888
01:13:24,950 --> 01:13:22,000
the uh the discussion

1889
01:13:26,310 --> 01:13:24,960
uh from john and i want to say you're

1890
01:13:27,990 --> 01:13:26,320
right there was

1891
01:13:29,590 --> 01:13:28,000
uh there was a little bit of a falling

1892
01:13:32,229 --> 01:13:29,600
out between those two

1893
01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:32,239
and it was uh you know was very

1894
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:33,280
unfortunate for

1895
01:13:37,030 --> 01:13:35,600
all of us you know that's uh you know

1896
01:13:38,390 --> 01:13:37,040
that hangs out with these guys to to

1897
01:13:41,910 --> 01:13:38,400
have gone through

1898
01:13:43,350 --> 01:13:41,920
but in the end in 2020 to have john make

1899
01:13:45,510 --> 01:13:43,360
these statements

1900
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:45,520
uh john has always maintained like you

1901
01:13:47,590 --> 01:13:47,040
guys did at the end of the book that you

1902
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:47,600
know what i

1903
01:13:52,070 --> 01:13:50,400
i don't know i was there but i can't

1904
01:13:54,550 --> 01:13:52,080
tell you definitively

1905
01:13:56,390 --> 01:13:54,560
anything i can just say that something

1906
01:13:57,510 --> 01:13:56,400
was there in the forest that night we

1907
01:13:59,669 --> 01:13:57,520
were all there

1908
01:14:01,590 --> 01:13:59,679
it's documented it it's affected our

1909
01:14:02,550 --> 01:14:01,600
health it's affected a lot of other

1910
01:14:04,550 --> 01:14:02,560
things

1911
01:14:06,470 --> 01:14:04,560
something happened we just don't know

1912
01:14:08,709 --> 01:14:06,480
what and for john to

1913
01:14:09,990 --> 01:14:08,719
uh to go back to this time travel thing

1914
01:14:12,870 --> 01:14:10,000
it seems that

1915
01:14:13,669 --> 01:14:12,880
he is still trying to figure out in his

1916
01:14:15,990 --> 01:14:13,679
own mind

1917
01:14:17,350 --> 01:14:16,000
what actually happened uh in the forest

1918
01:14:21,830 --> 01:14:17,360
that night

1919
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:21,840
yes i mean look a few months ago

1920
01:14:24,950 --> 01:14:24,239
if if you'd have talked to me about time

1921
01:14:27,350 --> 01:14:24,960
travel i

1922
01:14:29,350 --> 01:14:27,360
i would have really you know i would

1923
01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:29,360
have said yeah sure we we covered in the

1924
01:14:33,110 --> 01:14:29,760
book

1925
01:14:34,310 --> 01:14:33,120
but but i i don't really want to go

1926
01:14:37,669 --> 01:14:34,320
there

1927
01:14:39,030 --> 01:14:37,679
when you see the defense intelligence

1928
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:39,040
agency

1929
01:14:46,149 --> 01:14:42,239
letter to congress on the atip program

1930
01:14:49,910 --> 01:14:46,159
when you see them quite clearly

1931
01:14:52,870 --> 01:14:49,920
discuss and and give the titles of

1932
01:14:53,750 --> 01:14:52,880
scientific and technical intelligence

1933
01:14:57,030 --> 01:14:53,760
papers

1934
01:15:00,390 --> 01:14:57,040
on anti-gravity um

1935
01:15:03,830 --> 01:15:00,400
invisibility stargates warp

1936
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:03,840
drive wormholes things like that

1937
01:15:07,750 --> 01:15:05,920
and and then you come back to me and say

1938
01:15:08,630 --> 01:15:07,760
well what about time travel then maybe

1939
01:15:12,310 --> 01:15:08,640
i'll say well

1940
01:15:15,590 --> 01:15:12,320
you know why why the heck not

1941
01:15:17,030 --> 01:15:15,600
yeah i agree with you um and when we

1942
01:15:17,590 --> 01:15:17,040
come back we're gonna head towards the

1943
01:15:22,149 --> 01:15:17,600
break

1944
01:15:24,470 --> 01:15:22,159
there was one line in the condyne report

1945
01:15:25,270 --> 01:15:24,480
that i still go back to just one line

1946
01:15:26,790 --> 01:15:25,280
the whole repo

1947
01:15:28,790 --> 01:15:26,800
okay all right all right interesting

1948
01:15:29,350 --> 01:15:28,800
reading but there's one line in there

1949
01:15:33,189 --> 01:15:29,360
nick

1950
01:15:36,229 --> 01:15:33,199
where yeah again paraphrasing but

1951
01:15:39,430 --> 01:15:36,239
uh these type of effects

1952
01:15:42,870 --> 01:15:39,440
are known with uaps

1953
01:15:45,430 --> 01:15:42,880
and to make that statement and it's

1954
01:15:46,390 --> 01:15:45,440
it's a little bit more clear in the

1955
01:15:49,350 --> 01:15:46,400
report

1956
01:15:50,950 --> 01:15:49,360
but what it does say is that the

1957
01:15:53,669 --> 01:15:50,960
ministry of defense

1958
01:15:55,510 --> 01:15:53,679
has information on uaps they know about

1959
01:15:56,229 --> 01:15:55,520
direct contact they know about these

1960
01:15:59,270 --> 01:15:56,239
effects with

1961
01:16:01,110 --> 01:15:59,280
everybody in the past and these

1962
01:16:03,669 --> 01:16:01,120
effects are consistent with their own

1963
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:03,679
information isn't that an emission

1964
01:16:10,550 --> 01:16:08,400
in of itself of the et phenomenon

1965
01:16:12,709 --> 01:16:10,560
yes i i get that and and we can

1966
01:16:13,189 --> 01:16:12,719
definitely get into project con dying a

1967
01:16:15,750 --> 01:16:13,199
little

1968
01:16:17,510 --> 01:16:15,760
after the break and i can hopefully put

1969
01:16:19,030 --> 01:16:17,520
some flesh on the bones

1970
01:16:20,550 --> 01:16:19,040
yeah okay let's take our break right

1971
01:16:22,870 --> 01:16:20,560
here our guest tonight

1972
01:16:25,030 --> 01:16:22,880
nick pope we've got a great week here on

1973
01:16:27,350 --> 01:16:25,040
fade to black tonight nick is with us

1974
01:16:29,110 --> 01:16:27,360
tomorrow night greg house is going to be

1975
01:16:32,229 --> 01:16:29,120
joining us discussing

1976
01:16:34,950 --> 01:16:32,239
uh the recent very elaborate hack

1977
01:16:36,310 --> 01:16:34,960
of an entertainment law firm in new york

1978
01:16:38,790 --> 01:16:36,320
city that went down

1979
01:16:40,229 --> 01:16:38,800
and is been in the news over the weekend

1980
01:16:42,550 --> 01:16:40,239
we will see what develops

1981
01:16:44,070 --> 01:16:42,560
as the week continues wednesday night

1982
01:16:47,030 --> 01:16:44,080
robert shock is going to be here

1983
01:16:48,470 --> 01:16:47,040
it is our go beckley tepe special event

1984
01:16:50,870 --> 01:16:48,480
and then thursday night

1985
01:16:51,910 --> 01:16:50,880
linda moulton howe we're going to go

1986
01:16:54,790 --> 01:16:51,920
over all of her

1987
01:16:57,110 --> 01:16:54,800
recent research into coronavirus and

1988
01:16:58,310 --> 01:16:57,120
kovid 19. this is fade to black i'm your

1989
01:17:00,229 --> 01:16:58,320
host jimmy church

1990
01:17:04,380 --> 01:17:00,239
more with nick after this short break

1991
01:17:04,390 --> 01:17:13,669
[Music]

1992
01:17:16,870 --> 01:17:15,350
welcome back fade to black i am your

1993
01:17:18,709 --> 01:17:16,880
host jimmy church i guess tonight nick

1994
01:17:23,270 --> 01:17:18,719
pope

1995
01:17:27,350 --> 01:17:23,280
talking about all things ufo uap tonight

1996
01:17:30,630 --> 01:17:27,360
and and really quick and nick

1997
01:17:31,510 --> 01:17:30,640
i'm not cool with uap i'm just not cool

1998
01:17:35,189 --> 01:17:31,520
with it

1999
01:17:38,950 --> 01:17:35,199
really yeah i mean it just

2000
01:17:42,870 --> 01:17:38,960
ufo is such uh

2001
01:17:45,910 --> 01:17:42,880
is such a clearly defined situation

2002
01:17:49,350 --> 01:17:45,920
right unidentified uh object okay

2003
01:17:52,790 --> 01:17:49,360
that that's great but it it definitely

2004
01:17:56,709 --> 01:17:52,800
suggests uh all of the above

2005
01:17:58,870 --> 01:17:56,719
not of this earth right and and

2006
01:17:59,990 --> 01:17:58,880
and i mean for me in a conversation if

2007
01:18:01,270 --> 01:18:00,000
you're having a conversation with

2008
01:18:03,110 --> 01:18:01,280
somebody in the street

2009
01:18:04,950 --> 01:18:03,120
and you say ufo they're not going to go

2010
01:18:06,550 --> 01:18:04,960
oh you mean some object in the sky that

2011
01:18:09,030 --> 01:18:06,560
nobody can explain

2012
01:18:10,070 --> 01:18:09,040
it could be from here no that's not no

2013
01:18:11,669 --> 01:18:10,080
no that's

2014
01:18:13,430 --> 01:18:11,679
100 they're going to think you're

2015
01:18:15,990 --> 01:18:13,440
talking about aliens

2016
01:18:17,750 --> 01:18:16,000
and that's that inside of our circles is

2017
01:18:20,390 --> 01:18:17,760
another matter altogether

2018
01:18:21,350 --> 01:18:20,400
but the rest of the world clearly knows

2019
01:18:24,950 --> 01:18:21,360
what ufo

2020
01:18:27,030 --> 01:18:24,960
is intended to mean yes look here here's

2021
01:18:30,070 --> 01:18:27,040
the story with uap

2022
01:18:32,390 --> 01:18:30,080
we didn't invent it but

2023
01:18:33,189 --> 01:18:32,400
in the early 90s in the ministry of

2024
01:18:36,950 --> 01:18:33,199
defense

2025
01:18:40,390 --> 01:18:36,960
actually pretty much um

2026
01:18:43,030 --> 01:18:40,400
as we were planning the work

2027
01:18:45,030 --> 01:18:43,040
that evolved into what became known as

2028
01:18:48,790 --> 01:18:45,040
project condyne

2029
01:18:52,229 --> 01:18:48,800
we decided that we needed to rebrand

2030
01:18:55,189 --> 01:18:52,239
the ufo phenomenon to to kind of get rid

2031
01:18:56,149 --> 01:18:55,199
of the pop culture baggage that the term

2032
01:18:58,390 --> 01:18:56,159
had

2033
01:18:59,669 --> 01:18:58,400
not with the public and the media in i

2034
01:19:01,910 --> 01:18:59,679
don't mean to sound

2035
01:19:03,669 --> 01:19:01,920
dismissive here but we didn't really

2036
01:19:06,870 --> 01:19:03,679
worry about that

2037
01:19:10,310 --> 01:19:06,880
what we went was internally and

2038
01:19:13,669 --> 01:19:10,320
and so we we swapped the phrase

2039
01:19:17,830 --> 01:19:13,679
ufo for uap internally

2040
01:19:19,590 --> 01:19:17,840
and after i'd left the mod

2041
01:19:21,030 --> 01:19:19,600
and we did this we did this in the early

2042
01:19:25,189 --> 01:19:21,040
90s in

2043
01:19:29,030 --> 01:19:25,199
i think it was june of 2011. i was at a

2044
01:19:32,390 --> 01:19:29,040
briefing at closed briefing in in um

2045
01:19:34,790 --> 01:19:32,400
washington dc and i can't

2046
01:19:35,910 --> 01:19:34,800
tell you who was there or you know but

2047
01:19:38,470 --> 01:19:35,920
literally i mean

2048
01:19:40,149 --> 01:19:38,480
there was a former cia director sat sat

2049
01:19:41,430 --> 01:19:40,159
in the back row taking notes and it was

2050
01:19:44,630 --> 01:19:41,440
that kind of briefing

2051
01:19:47,669 --> 01:19:44,640
and that was the genesis of how

2052
01:19:51,030 --> 01:19:47,679
the phrase uap entered the u.s

2053
01:19:51,350 --> 01:19:51,040
government um and and of course as you

2054
01:19:54,950 --> 01:19:51,360
know

2055
01:19:57,510 --> 01:19:54,960
last year in one of the official navy

2056
01:19:59,110 --> 01:19:57,520
statements about all this one of the

2057
01:20:01,030 --> 01:19:59,120
spokespeople said this

2058
01:20:02,550 --> 01:20:01,040
uap is a term we borrowed from the

2059
01:20:04,790 --> 01:20:02,560
british government and

2060
01:20:06,550 --> 01:20:04,800
we did it for a reason and it was it was

2061
01:20:07,910 --> 01:20:06,560
never meant for the public and the media

2062
01:20:10,709 --> 01:20:07,920
but it it was meant

2063
01:20:12,950 --> 01:20:10,719
it was meant for an internal audience

2064
01:20:15,830 --> 01:20:12,960
just to reframe the debate

2065
01:20:17,590 --> 01:20:15,840
and so i stand by it i know not everyone

2066
01:20:20,870 --> 01:20:17,600
likes it but i stand by it

2067
01:20:23,270 --> 01:20:20,880
now uh the closed door meeting here

2068
01:20:24,790 --> 01:20:23,280
uh in the states what was that about was

2069
01:20:29,110 --> 01:20:24,800
it about ufos

2070
01:20:32,390 --> 01:20:29,120
uh specifically yes it was it

2071
01:20:35,669 --> 01:20:32,400
was about how to take this forward and

2072
01:20:36,629 --> 01:20:35,679
and you know i can't go into the details

2073
01:20:40,310 --> 01:20:36,639
of it but

2074
01:20:44,149 --> 01:20:40,320
as a a number of key people from from

2075
01:20:46,070 --> 01:20:44,159
i guess the political world

2076
01:20:47,590 --> 01:20:46,080
military the intelligence community were

2077
01:20:50,470 --> 01:20:47,600
there and i simply

2078
01:20:52,790 --> 01:20:50,480
i simply gave a very very sort of

2079
01:20:55,110 --> 01:20:52,800
straightforward factual briefing

2080
01:20:56,070 --> 01:20:55,120
about the british government's ufo

2081
01:20:59,270 --> 01:20:56,080
program

2082
01:21:00,950 --> 01:20:59,280
and one of the points that that clearly

2083
01:21:04,149 --> 01:21:00,960
did

2084
01:21:08,070 --> 01:21:04,159
uh get get some attention

2085
01:21:10,629 --> 01:21:08,080
was our are dropping the phrase ufo

2086
01:21:11,830 --> 01:21:10,639
replacing it with uap as i say

2087
01:21:14,550 --> 01:21:11,840
deliberately to

2088
01:21:16,629 --> 01:21:14,560
to reframe the debate to make it sound

2089
01:21:19,110 --> 01:21:16,639
less like a sci-fi

2090
01:21:20,070 --> 01:21:19,120
issue and more like a science problem

2091
01:21:22,310 --> 01:21:20,080
and a defense

2092
01:21:23,990 --> 01:21:22,320
a national security issue yeah very

2093
01:21:26,830 --> 01:21:24,000
interesting were they asking

2094
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:26,840
questions or was this just a

2095
01:21:32,550 --> 01:21:28,800
presentation

2096
01:21:35,430 --> 01:21:32,560
then there was a q a

2097
01:21:37,510 --> 01:21:35,440
and and clearly i i mean clearly this

2098
01:21:39,750 --> 01:21:37,520
was taken on board look

2099
01:21:41,189 --> 01:21:39,760
i i don't want to get into the politics

2100
01:21:43,750 --> 01:21:41,199
of this because

2101
01:21:44,310 --> 01:21:43,760
because i've you know i've heard people

2102
01:21:46,790 --> 01:21:44,320
try and

2103
01:21:47,910 --> 01:21:46,800
frame this as a a sort of republican

2104
01:21:50,629 --> 01:21:47,920
versus democrat

2105
01:21:52,709 --> 01:21:50,639
issue and it isn't i mean i've most of

2106
01:21:55,990 --> 01:21:52,719
my recent media interviews have

2107
01:21:57,110 --> 01:21:56,000
have been i guess with with you know

2108
01:22:00,470 --> 01:21:57,120
tucker carlson

2109
01:22:01,750 --> 01:22:00,480
and fox and friends but but before that

2110
01:22:04,390 --> 01:22:01,760
i did cnn

2111
01:22:05,270 --> 01:22:04,400
and and when larry king was involved in

2112
01:22:07,510 --> 01:22:05,280
this

2113
01:22:09,189 --> 01:22:07,520
it's it's not a political issue but

2114
01:22:10,550 --> 01:22:09,199
there's no getting away from the fact

2115
01:22:13,430 --> 01:22:10,560
that i guess

2116
01:22:14,950 --> 01:22:13,440
a couple of years after i gave that

2117
01:22:21,189 --> 01:22:14,960
briefing

2118
01:22:23,430 --> 01:22:21,199
but obviously hillary clinton did did

2119
01:22:27,510 --> 01:22:23,440
that appearance on jimmy kimmel

2120
01:22:30,229 --> 01:22:27,520
where jimmy kimmel said about ufos

2121
01:22:33,030 --> 01:22:30,239
and hillary clinton stopped him and

2122
01:22:35,510 --> 01:22:33,040
interrupted and said no it's not ufos

2123
01:22:36,870 --> 01:22:35,520
there's a new phrase it's uap and i was

2124
01:22:41,510 --> 01:22:36,880
watching that and i thought

2125
01:22:44,790 --> 01:22:41,520
oh i did that and the

2126
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:44,800
the interest okay so when we

2127
01:22:51,629 --> 01:22:48,719
when we uh hear so much about uh

2128
01:22:53,270 --> 01:22:51,639
especially since december december 17

2129
01:22:55,990 --> 01:22:53,280
2017

2130
01:22:57,350 --> 01:22:56,000
uh that prior to that there was a

2131
01:23:00,149 --> 01:22:57,360
general denial

2132
01:23:02,470 --> 01:23:00,159
with the pentagon and anything official

2133
01:23:02,870 --> 01:23:02,480
when it came to the ufo subject it was

2134
01:23:05,189 --> 01:23:02,880
uh

2135
01:23:07,110 --> 01:23:05,199
it ended with project blue book there's

2136
01:23:09,430 --> 01:23:07,120
nothing to see here

2137
01:23:10,550 --> 01:23:09,440
clearly that is not the case but what

2138
01:23:14,229 --> 01:23:10,560
you're indicating

2139
01:23:17,990 --> 01:23:14,239
here is that in between blue book

2140
01:23:18,870 --> 01:23:18,000
and december 27 2020 you were taking

2141
01:23:21,270 --> 01:23:18,880
part in

2142
01:23:21,990 --> 01:23:21,280
closed closed-door meetings between

2143
01:23:25,110 --> 01:23:22,000
governments

2144
01:23:27,510 --> 01:23:25,120
on this subject right there's not really

2145
01:23:28,629 --> 01:23:27,520
a gray area here with what you're saying

2146
01:23:32,830 --> 01:23:28,639
nick

2147
01:23:35,510 --> 01:23:32,840
no that's that's that's a fair

2148
01:23:39,270 --> 01:23:35,520
characterization what i will say is this

2149
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:39,280
i have never been involved in

2150
01:23:47,189 --> 01:23:43,440
the atip program um

2151
01:23:47,990 --> 01:23:47,199
if you look at some of the documentation

2152
01:23:51,669 --> 01:23:48,000
that we have

2153
01:23:55,430 --> 01:23:51,679
about atip i'm talking about

2154
01:23:58,709 --> 01:23:55,440
harry reid's 2009 letter to the

2155
01:24:02,070 --> 01:23:58,719
deputy secretary of um

2156
01:24:05,270 --> 01:24:02,080
defense for example you can

2157
01:24:07,430 --> 01:24:05,280
spot the british influence and i i'm not

2158
01:24:08,550 --> 01:24:07,440
claiming any personal credit for this

2159
01:24:10,709 --> 01:24:08,560
but what i am

2160
01:24:12,149 --> 01:24:10,719
saying is that if you look at project

2161
01:24:15,030 --> 01:24:12,159
condyne

2162
01:24:15,990 --> 01:24:15,040
which we did in in you know we set it up

2163
01:24:19,350 --> 01:24:16,000
in the 90s

2164
01:24:21,669 --> 01:24:19,360
it's it reported in 2000

2165
01:24:22,709 --> 01:24:21,679
clearly you can tell this because some

2166
01:24:25,270 --> 01:24:22,719
of the words

2167
01:24:26,310 --> 01:24:25,280
some of the text is literally word for

2168
01:24:28,830 --> 01:24:26,320
word

2169
01:24:31,669 --> 01:24:28,840
when you talk about novel military

2170
01:24:36,149 --> 01:24:31,679
applications signature reduction

2171
01:24:39,350 --> 01:24:36,159
um rfi weapons

2172
01:24:41,590 --> 01:24:39,360
directed energy weapons etc some of the

2173
01:24:45,110 --> 01:24:41,600
words in harry reid's

2174
01:24:47,189 --> 01:24:45,120
letter on atip for example

2175
01:24:48,629 --> 01:24:47,199
almost word for word come out of project

2176
01:24:51,030 --> 01:24:48,639
condy

2177
01:24:51,750 --> 01:24:51,040
and and then as i mentioned there's the

2178
01:24:54,229 --> 01:24:51,760
the us

2179
01:24:56,229 --> 01:24:54,239
navy saying we borrowed this from the

2180
01:24:57,910 --> 01:24:56,239
british government this term

2181
01:24:59,510 --> 01:24:57,920
and and then there's the fact that

2182
01:25:03,189 --> 01:24:59,520
hillary clinton said

2183
01:25:06,790 --> 01:25:03,199
uap there's there's a new term for this

2184
01:25:10,310 --> 01:25:06,800
um the genesis of a lot of

2185
01:25:16,390 --> 01:25:13,750
you can find in in the uk ministry of

2186
01:25:19,110 --> 01:25:16,400
defense in what we were doing in the 90s

2187
01:25:19,830 --> 01:25:19,120
in project condy and none of this is in

2188
01:25:21,910 --> 01:25:19,840
dispute

2189
01:25:23,590 --> 01:25:21,920
it's all out there it's all declassified

2190
01:25:25,990 --> 01:25:23,600
and released people can do

2191
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:26,000
a comparative analysis and people can

2192
01:25:31,110 --> 01:25:28,080
spot exactly the same

2193
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:31,120
phrases it's not a secret no

2194
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:34,800
and and and going back to that one

2195
01:25:39,350 --> 01:25:36,719
sentence that you and i talked about

2196
01:25:42,629 --> 01:25:39,360
earlier about the effects of uaps

2197
01:25:46,950 --> 01:25:42,639
that are known right known effects of

2198
01:25:49,750 --> 01:25:46,960
uaps is is a pretty dramatic statement

2199
01:25:51,110 --> 01:25:49,760
is is condyne in the release of that

2200
01:25:54,470 --> 01:25:51,120
report

2201
01:25:59,030 --> 01:25:54,480
uh as official as it can be

2202
01:26:02,629 --> 01:25:59,040
that e.t extraterrestrial intelligence

2203
01:26:05,830 --> 01:26:02,639
uh from interstellar space

2204
01:26:10,070 --> 01:26:05,840
is visiting our planet isn't that what

2205
01:26:11,270 --> 01:26:10,080
condyne is saying no it doesn't quite go

2206
01:26:13,830 --> 01:26:11,280
that far

2207
01:26:14,629 --> 01:26:13,840
but you're right i mean it absolutely

2208
01:26:16,709 --> 01:26:14,639
goes beyond

2209
01:26:18,390 --> 01:26:16,719
aircraft lights and weather balloons and

2210
01:26:20,950 --> 01:26:18,400
i think the

2211
01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:20,960
the the part of it that you're referring

2212
01:26:26,149 --> 01:26:22,800
to um

2213
01:26:29,910 --> 01:26:26,159
is is um in

2214
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:29,920
annex what is it gosh um volume two

2215
01:26:33,510 --> 01:26:30,480
annex

2216
01:26:36,149 --> 01:26:33,520
f working paper one

2217
01:26:36,950 --> 01:26:36,159
and i don't have it in front of me but

2218
01:26:43,750 --> 01:26:36,960
there is a

2219
01:26:44,870 --> 01:26:43,760
non-ionizing electromagnetic effects on

2220
01:26:48,070 --> 01:26:44,880
humans

2221
01:26:51,350 --> 01:26:48,080
and em field from a plasma

2222
01:26:53,270 --> 01:26:51,360
and it goes on to say the well-reported

2223
01:26:54,950 --> 01:26:53,280
rendelsham forest event

2224
01:26:57,430 --> 01:26:54,960
is an example where it might be

2225
01:27:00,550 --> 01:26:57,440
postulated that several observers

2226
01:27:04,470 --> 01:27:00,560
were probably exposed to uap

2227
01:27:06,709 --> 01:27:04,480
radiation that's right and and it's

2228
01:27:07,830 --> 01:27:06,719
it's there in black and white this isn't

2229
01:27:10,470 --> 01:27:07,840
this isn't me

2230
01:27:12,070 --> 01:27:10,480
saying this on your show this is me

2231
01:27:15,350 --> 01:27:12,080
saying this on your show

2232
01:27:17,350 --> 01:27:15,360
and saying to every single listener go

2233
01:27:18,550 --> 01:27:17,360
check it out and read it for yourself i

2234
01:27:20,629 --> 01:27:18,560
mean the british government has

2235
01:27:24,229 --> 01:27:20,639
declassified and released this

2236
01:27:26,709 --> 01:27:24,239
this document and and and how do we

2237
01:27:29,510 --> 01:27:26,719
how do we as a community nick when we

2238
01:27:32,629 --> 01:27:29,520
look at khan dyne and rendell shim

2239
01:27:34,950 --> 01:27:32,639
and start to look at the drip drip drip

2240
01:27:37,590 --> 01:27:34,960
over the last couple of years

2241
01:27:38,470 --> 01:27:37,600
how do we how do we you know start to

2242
01:27:41,430 --> 01:27:38,480
come to terms

2243
01:27:42,950 --> 01:27:41,440
with all of this i mean it the the

2244
01:27:45,750 --> 01:27:42,960
question is a simple one

2245
01:27:46,550 --> 01:27:45,760
you know either we are alone or we are

2246
01:27:48,709 --> 01:27:46,560
not

2247
01:27:49,910 --> 01:27:48,719
and you can take it one step further

2248
01:27:53,030 --> 01:27:49,920
that our governments

2249
01:27:55,510 --> 01:27:53,040
know the answer to this and it seems

2250
01:27:58,830 --> 01:27:55,520
like they're trying to tell us something

2251
01:28:00,470 --> 01:27:58,840
what do we do as a community with this

2252
01:28:03,030 --> 01:28:00,480
information

2253
01:28:04,709 --> 01:28:03,040
well it's an interesting question i i i

2254
01:28:06,950 --> 01:28:04,719
wouldn't be so arrogant as to tell

2255
01:28:07,510 --> 01:28:06,960
anyone what to do or what to say or what

2256
01:28:11,669 --> 01:28:07,520
to think

2257
01:28:15,590 --> 01:28:11,679
all i can say is that these documents

2258
01:28:16,470 --> 01:28:15,600
whether it's project condyne's final

2259
01:28:18,629 --> 01:28:16,480
report

2260
01:28:19,590 --> 01:28:18,639
whether it's some of the a-tip paperwork

2261
01:28:22,229 --> 01:28:19,600
we have

2262
01:28:23,590 --> 01:28:22,239
um those documents are out there and i

2263
01:28:26,149 --> 01:28:23,600
think people can

2264
01:28:28,070 --> 01:28:26,159
can read them for themselves and and

2265
01:28:31,189 --> 01:28:28,080
people can

2266
01:28:34,229 --> 01:28:31,199
you know derive their own takeaways

2267
01:28:35,030 --> 01:28:34,239
out of all this and if some people are

2268
01:28:36,550 --> 01:28:35,040
skeptical

2269
01:28:38,870 --> 01:28:36,560
some people are believers some are in

2270
01:28:39,430 --> 01:28:38,880
the middle that's fine it it is what it

2271
01:28:43,350 --> 01:28:39,440
is

2272
01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:43,360
guess a lot of it's

2273
01:28:48,870 --> 01:28:46,800
written in fairly ambiguous terms and

2274
01:28:51,430 --> 01:28:48,880
you can take different things away from

2275
01:28:53,590 --> 01:28:51,440
it and you can read project condyne

2276
01:28:56,550 --> 01:28:53,600
and you can come away thinking it's all

2277
01:28:58,629 --> 01:28:56,560
weird atmospheric plasma phenomena

2278
01:29:00,149 --> 01:28:58,639
or you can come away thinking they're

2279
01:29:03,590 --> 01:29:00,159
trying to tell us something

2280
01:29:04,870 --> 01:29:03,600
right right and and in reading between

2281
01:29:08,229 --> 01:29:04,880
the lines

2282
01:29:13,030 --> 01:29:08,239
uh going back to susan gao's statements

2283
01:29:15,350 --> 01:29:13,040
uh from april uh 27th of 2020 with the

2284
01:29:18,470 --> 01:29:15,360
official release of these three videos

2285
01:29:20,550 --> 01:29:18,480
it's what they didn't say

2286
01:29:21,590 --> 01:29:20,560
in that press release which i think is

2287
01:29:24,950 --> 01:29:21,600
more telling than

2288
01:29:27,750 --> 01:29:24,960
what they did say what they didn't say

2289
01:29:29,030 --> 01:29:27,760
is that we're alone in the universe what

2290
01:29:32,709 --> 01:29:29,040
they didn't say

2291
01:29:35,189 --> 01:29:32,719
is we're not alone in the universe

2292
01:29:36,709 --> 01:29:35,199
neither there isn't a reference to

2293
01:29:39,030 --> 01:29:36,719
neither of those statements

2294
01:29:40,629 --> 01:29:39,040
there and i think that is the one thing

2295
01:29:43,510 --> 01:29:40,639
that we need to walk away from

2296
01:29:43,910 --> 01:29:43,520
understanding that the government isn't

2297
01:29:47,510 --> 01:29:43,920
saying

2298
01:29:49,110 --> 01:29:47,520
anything even if they could they are not

2299
01:29:52,310 --> 01:29:49,120
well i think i can give you a more

2300
01:29:55,590 --> 01:29:52,320
definitive smoking gun than that even

2301
01:29:57,149 --> 01:29:55,600
if you look at the january what was it

2302
01:30:00,229 --> 01:29:57,159
january 9th

2303
01:30:02,149 --> 01:30:00,239
2018 letter that the defense

2304
01:30:05,510 --> 01:30:02,159
intelligence agency

2305
01:30:07,669 --> 01:30:05,520
sent to congress you know

2306
01:30:09,430 --> 01:30:07,679
two to three weeks after the new york

2307
01:30:12,470 --> 01:30:09,440
times broke the story of

2308
01:30:14,390 --> 01:30:12,480
atip and and the u.s navy encounters and

2309
01:30:18,149 --> 01:30:14,400
the videos

2310
01:30:21,189 --> 01:30:18,159
dia's letter um

2311
01:30:24,390 --> 01:30:21,199
said to congress uh to

2312
01:30:28,870 --> 01:30:24,400
to john mccain and jack reed

2313
01:30:30,870 --> 01:30:28,880
um your staffs on on the various

2314
01:30:31,910 --> 01:30:30,880
congressional committees have have been

2315
01:30:34,070 --> 01:30:31,920
asking about this

2316
01:30:36,310 --> 01:30:34,080
this is what we did under the atip

2317
01:30:39,350 --> 01:30:36,320
program and then they attached

2318
01:30:39,990 --> 01:30:39,360
and and they said in the cover note they

2319
01:30:42,629 --> 01:30:40,000
said

2320
01:30:43,030 --> 01:30:42,639
this this was a program to investigate

2321
01:30:46,550 --> 01:30:43,040
far

2322
01:30:47,510 --> 01:30:46,560
term aerospace threats to the united

2323
01:30:49,430 --> 01:30:47,520
states

2324
01:30:52,390 --> 01:30:49,440
and you would think well that's that's a

2325
01:30:55,350 --> 01:30:52,400
good thing you know it sounds like

2326
01:30:57,189 --> 01:30:55,360
dia being on the ball and what the heck

2327
01:31:00,229 --> 01:30:57,199
are russia and china up to

2328
01:31:03,750 --> 01:31:00,239
right sounds good

2329
01:31:07,350 --> 01:31:03,760
when you look at the list of 38 studies

2330
01:31:10,229 --> 01:31:07,360
that they produced under this contract

2331
01:31:13,750 --> 01:31:10,239
guess how many of those studies relate

2332
01:31:16,790 --> 01:31:13,760
to chinese and russian aircraft

2333
01:31:19,750 --> 01:31:16,800
zero right none of them

2334
01:31:21,590 --> 01:31:19,760
it's all about anti-gravity and

2335
01:31:24,070 --> 01:31:21,600
stargates and

2336
01:31:26,470 --> 01:31:24,080
wormholes and warp drive but look here's

2337
01:31:29,990 --> 01:31:26,480
the smoking gun

2338
01:31:32,870 --> 01:31:30,000
one of those papers was about the drake

2339
01:31:33,910 --> 01:31:32,880
equation and as you know the drake

2340
01:31:37,189 --> 01:31:33,920
equation

2341
01:31:39,270 --> 01:31:37,199
it has only one purpose

2342
01:31:41,430 --> 01:31:39,280
the purpose of the drake equation is to

2343
01:31:42,870 --> 01:31:41,440
estimate the number of communicable

2344
01:31:45,830 --> 01:31:42,880
civilizations

2345
01:31:47,590 --> 01:31:45,840
in our milky way galaxy you know you can

2346
01:31:49,430 --> 01:31:47,600
call it a thought experiment

2347
01:31:50,870 --> 01:31:49,440
you can call it an equation but that's

2348
01:31:52,709 --> 01:31:50,880
the only thing it does

2349
01:31:55,189 --> 01:31:52,719
it's nothing to do with russia nothing

2350
01:31:57,590 --> 01:31:55,199
to do with china nothing to do with iran

2351
01:31:59,669 --> 01:31:57,600
nothing to do with north korea you know

2352
01:32:00,390 --> 01:31:59,679
nothing to do with aircraft missiles or

2353
01:32:02,870 --> 01:32:00,400
drones

2354
01:32:04,229 --> 01:32:02,880
it's just to do with extraterrestrial

2355
01:32:07,110 --> 01:32:04,239
civilizations

2356
01:32:07,910 --> 01:32:07,120
and there it is in the dia letter to

2357
01:32:11,270 --> 01:32:07,920
congress

2358
01:32:13,270 --> 01:32:11,280
about the atip program and so okay so

2359
01:32:16,550 --> 01:32:13,280
what does that tell you though

2360
01:32:17,590 --> 01:32:16,560
because when i when i read the original

2361
01:32:20,709 --> 01:32:17,600
and i got it

2362
01:32:24,870 --> 01:32:20,719
way before uh december

2363
01:32:28,470 --> 01:32:24,880
17 uh 2017. i got a copy of the uh

2364
01:32:31,990 --> 01:32:28,480
the 38 reports and i read through it

2365
01:32:33,430 --> 01:32:32,000
and i immediately called richard dolan

2366
01:32:35,030 --> 01:32:33,440
and i was reading through this and i

2367
01:32:38,709 --> 01:32:35,040
sent it to richard

2368
01:32:39,990 --> 01:32:38,719
and uh then we got back to each other

2369
01:32:40,550 --> 01:32:40,000
you know what do you think i said well

2370
01:32:43,030 --> 01:32:40,560
you know what

2371
01:32:45,189 --> 01:32:43,040
i'm just reading science fiction i'm

2372
01:32:48,709 --> 01:32:45,199
reading a bunch of physicists

2373
01:32:50,790 --> 01:32:48,719
and scientists theoretically projecting

2374
01:32:53,030 --> 01:32:50,800
20 years into the future about

2375
01:32:54,149 --> 01:32:53,040
technology that we could be dealing with

2376
01:32:57,110 --> 01:32:54,159
here on earth

2377
01:32:58,229 --> 01:32:57,120
what i didn't see in that and you know a

2378
01:33:01,590 --> 01:32:58,239
tip and everything else

2379
01:33:02,870 --> 01:33:01,600
that was uh a few months ahead we hadn't

2380
01:33:04,790 --> 01:33:02,880
experienced that yet

2381
01:33:06,149 --> 01:33:04,800
leslie kane hadn't written her article

2382
01:33:07,750 --> 01:33:06,159
and so forth but

2383
01:33:10,709 --> 01:33:07,760
um when i was reading through that i

2384
01:33:13,270 --> 01:33:10,719
said there's nothing here that says ufos

2385
01:33:13,910 --> 01:33:13,280
there's nothing in this entire document

2386
01:33:17,189 --> 01:33:13,920
that says

2387
01:33:19,590 --> 01:33:17,199
anything about e.t this is nothing but

2388
01:33:20,550 --> 01:33:19,600
science fiction talking about like you

2389
01:33:23,350 --> 01:33:20,560
said nick

2390
01:33:24,470 --> 01:33:23,360
wormholes and warp drives and stargates

2391
01:33:26,390 --> 01:33:24,480
great reading

2392
01:33:28,149 --> 01:33:26,400
it's great science fiction it's awesome

2393
01:33:31,350 --> 01:33:28,159
it's a projection into the future

2394
01:33:33,669 --> 01:33:31,360
about possibilities and probabilities

2395
01:33:35,030 --> 01:33:33,679
but it has nothing to do with et's or

2396
01:33:38,070 --> 01:33:35,040
ufos

2397
01:33:39,750 --> 01:33:38,080
and so going back to congress and and

2398
01:33:40,470 --> 01:33:39,760
these letters that were going back and

2399
01:33:43,910 --> 01:33:40,480
forth

2400
01:33:47,990 --> 01:33:43,920
i still i feel aerospace there

2401
01:33:49,510 --> 01:33:48,000
but i don't see e.t well

2402
01:33:51,110 --> 01:33:49,520
that's where i come back to the point

2403
01:33:54,229 --> 01:33:51,120
about the drake equation

2404
01:33:54,870 --> 01:33:54,239
you could argue with just about all of

2405
01:33:57,910 --> 01:33:54,880
the other

2406
01:33:59,510 --> 01:33:57,920
papers right all 38 of them

2407
01:34:01,189 --> 01:33:59,520
if you look down the list you can say

2408
01:34:04,470 --> 01:34:01,199
well you know

2409
01:34:07,189 --> 01:34:04,480
um warp drive maybe

2410
01:34:08,470 --> 01:34:07,199
and and i think the figure was 40 years

2411
01:34:11,350 --> 01:34:08,480
by the way but yeah

2412
01:34:11,830 --> 01:34:11,360
you could say look right maybe in 40

2413
01:34:14,870 --> 01:34:11,840
years

2414
01:34:16,629 --> 01:34:14,880
time this will be the sort of thing that

2415
01:34:18,950 --> 01:34:16,639
russia and china is looking at

2416
01:34:20,149 --> 01:34:18,960
and you know therefore we need to be

2417
01:34:24,229 --> 01:34:20,159
looking at it too

2418
01:34:25,910 --> 01:34:24,239
fair enough but the i come back to the

2419
01:34:28,709 --> 01:34:25,920
drake equation and the reason i come

2420
01:34:31,030 --> 01:34:28,719
back to it is there's no middle ground

2421
01:34:31,990 --> 01:34:31,040
with the drake equation you can study

2422
01:34:34,709 --> 01:34:32,000
wormholes

2423
01:34:35,910 --> 01:34:34,719
you can study warp drive you can study

2424
01:34:38,390 --> 01:34:35,920
anti-gravity

2425
01:34:40,950 --> 01:34:38,400
you can study invisibility and you could

2426
01:34:44,390 --> 01:34:40,960
argue yeah this is nothing to do with et

2427
01:34:47,030 --> 01:34:44,400
this could be answering the question

2428
01:34:48,070 --> 01:34:47,040
what might russia and china have in 40

2429
01:34:50,470 --> 01:34:48,080
years time

2430
01:34:51,430 --> 01:34:50,480
but you cannot look at the drake

2431
01:34:53,030 --> 01:34:51,440
equation

2432
01:34:54,950 --> 01:34:53,040
and say that that's about russia and

2433
01:34:57,669 --> 01:34:54,960
china it is only

2434
01:34:57,990 --> 01:34:57,679
about extraterrestrial civilizations

2435
01:35:00,550 --> 01:34:58,000
yeah

2436
01:35:02,950 --> 01:35:00,560
so you had the answer everyone had the

2437
01:35:05,350 --> 01:35:02,960
answer who had this list of 38

2438
01:35:07,669 --> 01:35:05,360
studies they had the answer but they

2439
01:35:10,310 --> 01:35:07,679
didn't ask the right question

2440
01:35:11,350 --> 01:35:10,320
ah well that's i'm going to go back and

2441
01:35:14,950 --> 01:35:11,360
take another look

2442
01:35:17,669 --> 01:35:14,960
that's a very interesting take on it the

2443
01:35:18,790 --> 01:35:17,679
and and by the way i should say the

2444
01:35:22,629 --> 01:35:18,800
current

2445
01:35:24,870 --> 01:35:22,639
position and you mentioned uh susan gao

2446
01:35:26,310 --> 01:35:24,880
uh the current position of the

2447
01:35:29,990 --> 01:35:26,320
department of defense

2448
01:35:33,990 --> 01:35:30,000
is that neither atip nor orsap

2449
01:35:37,270 --> 01:35:34,000
the a-tip contract were uap related

2450
01:35:40,390 --> 01:35:37,280
they flip-flopped on that i

2451
01:35:43,510 --> 01:35:40,400
put to them i said

2452
01:35:45,270 --> 01:35:43,520
if this is true why were you studying

2453
01:35:47,030 --> 01:35:45,280
the drake equation

2454
01:35:49,189 --> 01:35:47,040
what what's that got to do with russia

2455
01:35:51,430 --> 01:35:49,199
and china and they said

2456
01:35:52,629 --> 01:35:51,440
uh we'll get back to you on that and

2457
01:35:54,950 --> 01:35:52,639
that was like about

2458
01:35:57,390 --> 01:35:54,960
three four months ago so look the

2459
01:36:00,629 --> 01:35:57,400
pentagon is currently

2460
01:36:04,149 --> 01:36:00,639
redrafting their position statement

2461
01:36:05,990 --> 01:36:04,159
on atip to address my question of

2462
01:36:08,470 --> 01:36:06,000
why they would be looking at the drake

2463
01:36:11,990 --> 01:36:08,480
equation if this was really just about

2464
01:36:14,149 --> 01:36:12,000
next generation aviation threats so

2465
01:36:16,070 --> 01:36:14,159
that statement it may come tomorrow it

2466
01:36:17,750 --> 01:36:16,080
may be next week it may be a

2467
01:36:19,669 --> 01:36:17,760
couple of weeks but it will come it will

2468
01:36:20,229 --> 01:36:19,679
have to come and that might tell us some

2469
01:36:22,629 --> 01:36:20,239
more

2470
01:36:23,990 --> 01:36:22,639
and there was another staying on susan

2471
01:36:25,430 --> 01:36:24,000
gal for a second

2472
01:36:28,709 --> 01:36:25,440
and i can't believe we didn't get to

2473
01:36:30,709 --> 01:36:28,719
brazil since you're in for coronavirus

2474
01:36:32,709 --> 01:36:30,719
can i get you to stay over for a little

2475
01:36:36,149 --> 01:36:32,719
overtime i want to discuss

2476
01:36:37,590 --> 01:36:36,159
what's going down in brazil uh yeah i i

2477
01:36:39,189 --> 01:36:37,600
have to say i don't know my i'm

2478
01:36:41,109 --> 01:36:39,199
following the story

2479
01:36:43,189 --> 01:36:41,119
but i have not yet looked into it

2480
01:36:43,830 --> 01:36:43,199
personally so i'm not sure i can add

2481
01:36:46,310 --> 01:36:43,840
much to

2482
01:36:47,189 --> 01:36:46,320
to the brazil yeah not a problem not a

2483
01:36:49,590 --> 01:36:47,199
problem uh

2484
01:36:51,510 --> 01:36:49,600
your insight any uh or whatever it may

2485
01:36:55,830 --> 01:36:51,520
be it will be interesting

2486
01:36:59,350 --> 01:36:55,840
but uh back to susan gow there is

2487
01:37:02,390 --> 01:36:59,360
uh a line in her statement

2488
01:37:04,550 --> 01:37:02,400
that i think is the most telling which

2489
01:37:06,070 --> 01:37:04,560
is and again i'm paraphrasing i don't

2490
01:37:06,790 --> 01:37:06,080
have it in front of me i should pull it

2491
01:37:09,910 --> 01:37:06,800
up

2492
01:37:10,950 --> 01:37:09,920
but she says that there is nothing in

2493
01:37:14,310 --> 01:37:10,960
these three

2494
01:37:16,149 --> 01:37:14,320
videos revealing any sensitive

2495
01:37:19,430 --> 01:37:16,159
technologies

2496
01:37:22,149 --> 01:37:19,440
now that's uh that's a

2497
01:37:22,790 --> 01:37:22,159
pretty interesting statement isn't it i

2498
01:37:25,910 --> 01:37:22,800
mean

2499
01:37:30,390 --> 01:37:25,920
if it was et's or if it was

2500
01:37:33,350 --> 01:37:30,400
russian or or technology of ours

2501
01:37:34,070 --> 01:37:33,360
that we didn't want anybody else to see

2502
01:37:35,910 --> 01:37:34,080
then

2503
01:37:37,430 --> 01:37:35,920
why put that statement in there there's

2504
01:37:38,470 --> 01:37:37,440
nothing in these videos that is

2505
01:37:42,149 --> 01:37:38,480
revealing anything

2506
01:37:43,830 --> 01:37:42,159
sensitive or secretive or technologies

2507
01:37:45,830 --> 01:37:43,840
why put that in the statement if it

2508
01:37:48,709 --> 01:37:45,840
didn't need to be there

2509
01:37:51,270 --> 01:37:48,719
well that's part of standard government

2510
01:37:54,709 --> 01:37:51,280
policy to downplay

2511
01:37:58,149 --> 01:37:54,719
the whole ufo phenomenon and and make it

2512
01:38:02,390 --> 01:37:58,159
sound as as unexciting and and

2513
01:38:04,709 --> 01:38:02,400
as as low classification as possible and

2514
01:38:08,149 --> 01:38:04,719
it's a truthful statement there's

2515
01:38:11,830 --> 01:38:08,159
nothing those videos are unclassified

2516
01:38:15,830 --> 01:38:11,840
what she didn't say was that

2517
01:38:19,030 --> 01:38:15,840
videos associated or a video

2518
01:38:20,070 --> 01:38:19,040
associated with this but not one of

2519
01:38:23,830 --> 01:38:20,080
these three videos

2520
01:38:27,430 --> 01:38:23,840
is secret and various

2521
01:38:28,629 --> 01:38:27,440
briefing slides associated with these

2522
01:38:31,510 --> 01:38:28,639
three videos

2523
01:38:34,390 --> 01:38:31,520
are classified top secret and the

2524
01:38:37,189 --> 01:38:34,400
definition as you know of top secret is

2525
01:38:40,550 --> 01:38:37,199
information the disclosure of which

2526
01:38:42,310 --> 01:38:40,560
would cause exceptionally grave damage

2527
01:38:43,750 --> 01:38:42,320
to the national security of the united

2528
01:38:46,870 --> 01:38:43,760
states

2529
01:38:52,229 --> 01:38:46,880
i think i have the statement here okay

2530
01:38:59,830 --> 01:38:55,910
uh to let me get

2531
01:39:03,350 --> 01:38:59,840
to it uh

2532
01:39:07,830 --> 01:39:03,360
okay well that wasn't it

2533
01:39:12,070 --> 01:39:10,629
okay stay with me nick uh you know i

2534
01:39:15,430 --> 01:39:12,080
have my show notes from that

2535
01:39:18,070 --> 01:39:15,440
night i probably uh

2536
01:39:19,830 --> 01:39:18,080
okay she says this after a thorough

2537
01:39:21,430 --> 01:39:19,840
review the department has determined

2538
01:39:23,189 --> 01:39:21,440
that the authorized release of these

2539
01:39:25,510 --> 01:39:23,199
unclassified videos

2540
01:39:26,790 --> 01:39:25,520
does not reveal any sensitive

2541
01:39:29,669 --> 01:39:26,800
capabilities or

2542
01:39:30,470 --> 01:39:29,679
systems and does not impinge on any

2543
01:39:32,950 --> 01:39:30,480
subsequent

2544
01:39:34,470 --> 01:39:32,960
investigations of military airspace and

2545
01:39:39,270 --> 01:39:34,480
current incursions

2546
01:39:42,470 --> 01:39:39,280
by unidentified aerial phenomenon

2547
01:39:43,990 --> 01:39:42,480
man that's true yeah that's true but the

2548
01:39:46,870 --> 01:39:44,000
real question is

2549
01:39:48,950 --> 01:39:46,880
well that's fine but what does the

2550
01:39:52,470 --> 01:39:48,960
secret video

2551
01:39:55,830 --> 01:39:52,480
and the top secret briefing slide

2552
01:39:58,629 --> 01:39:55,840
relating to this what do they reveal yes

2553
01:40:00,470 --> 01:39:58,639
well and and why make the statement that

2554
01:40:02,070 --> 01:40:00,480
it does not reveal any sensitive

2555
01:40:06,070 --> 01:40:02,080
capabilities or

2556
01:40:08,870 --> 01:40:06,080
systems certainly a an et

2557
01:40:12,550 --> 01:40:08,880
situation would have highly sensitive

2558
01:40:15,669 --> 01:40:12,560
capabilities and technology

2559
01:40:17,669 --> 01:40:15,679
you would think absolutely yeah

2560
01:40:18,950 --> 01:40:17,679
it's a very it's a very interesting

2561
01:40:21,430 --> 01:40:18,960
statement and

2562
01:40:22,470 --> 01:40:21,440
and the other part about this that i

2563
01:40:25,189 --> 01:40:22,480
thought was

2564
01:40:25,750 --> 01:40:25,199
uh something that should have been

2565
01:40:28,709 --> 01:40:25,760
talked about

2566
01:40:29,910 --> 01:40:28,719
more is that john greenwald was pushing

2567
01:40:33,350 --> 01:40:29,920
for this

2568
01:40:35,189 --> 01:40:33,360
uh foia release uh and statement on

2569
01:40:39,669 --> 01:40:35,199
these three videos

2570
01:40:42,870 --> 01:40:39,679
and he got the foia release the same day

2571
01:40:45,109 --> 01:40:42,880
as the statement from susan gao and the

2572
01:40:46,709 --> 01:40:45,119
official release of the videos

2573
01:40:48,149 --> 01:40:46,719
that the two of them happened at the

2574
01:40:49,910 --> 01:40:48,159
same day

2575
01:40:51,590 --> 01:40:49,920
do you think that this official release

2576
01:40:54,550 --> 01:40:51,600
would have happened if

2577
01:40:58,229 --> 01:40:54,560
john greenwald was not pushing for a

2578
01:41:01,270 --> 01:40:59,990
i don't know about that i mean i think

2579
01:41:03,350 --> 01:41:01,280
sometimes

2580
01:41:04,870 --> 01:41:03,360
you know you could say that the

2581
01:41:06,790 --> 01:41:04,880
department of defense

2582
01:41:08,310 --> 01:41:06,800
might like to put something out

2583
01:41:12,390 --> 01:41:08,320
themselves

2584
01:41:15,830 --> 01:41:12,400
to maybe i i don't know overshadow

2585
01:41:18,870 --> 01:41:15,840
some of the work being done by

2586
01:41:19,270 --> 01:41:18,880
by people in the ufo community whether

2587
01:41:24,390 --> 01:41:19,280
it's

2588
01:41:27,350 --> 01:41:24,400
it might be

2589
01:41:29,030 --> 01:41:27,360
um you know it's it's part of well if

2590
01:41:31,030 --> 01:41:29,040
they think they've got a story here's a

2591
01:41:32,550 --> 01:41:31,040
bigger one and of course the dod will

2592
01:41:34,950 --> 01:41:32,560
always be able to

2593
01:41:36,070 --> 01:41:34,960
to get their quotes into the mainstream

2594
01:41:38,149 --> 01:41:36,080
media

2595
01:41:39,910 --> 01:41:38,159
yeah so you think that's why they

2596
01:41:43,270 --> 01:41:39,920
happened on the same day

2597
01:41:44,550 --> 01:41:43,280
could be very interesting and nick real

2598
01:41:47,030 --> 01:41:44,560
quick before the break and we'll come

2599
01:41:50,550 --> 01:41:47,040
back and discuss brazil briefly

2600
01:41:51,109 --> 01:41:50,560
is this is there a ufo researcher out

2601
01:41:54,870 --> 01:41:51,119
there

2602
01:41:57,109 --> 01:41:54,880
that for you today is somebody that

2603
01:41:58,070 --> 01:41:57,119
not only that you respect for their

2604
01:41:59,669 --> 01:41:58,080
information

2605
01:42:01,270 --> 01:41:59,679
but do you ever pick up the phone and

2606
01:42:01,910 --> 01:42:01,280
call somebody and go man i've got a

2607
01:42:04,950 --> 01:42:01,920
question

2608
01:42:11,270 --> 01:42:07,990
well i can't say as i pick up the phone

2609
01:42:12,709 --> 01:42:11,280
to people but i i suppose if if it was

2610
01:42:15,189 --> 01:42:12,719
going to be anyone and

2611
01:42:16,709 --> 01:42:15,199
this is not a ufo researcher but if i

2612
01:42:19,109 --> 01:42:16,719
was going to pick up the phone

2613
01:42:20,229 --> 01:42:19,119
to anyone i i guess i would pick up the

2614
01:42:22,709 --> 01:42:20,239
phone to lou

2615
01:42:23,990 --> 01:42:22,719
and talk to him on a sort of you know

2616
01:42:27,030 --> 01:42:24,000
government government

2617
01:42:28,550 --> 01:42:27,040
basis and say there are fundamental

2618
01:42:31,750 --> 01:42:28,560
differences between

2619
01:42:32,709 --> 01:42:31,760
the programs that that we ran but i

2620
01:42:35,430 --> 01:42:32,719
think

2621
01:42:37,590 --> 01:42:35,440
we understand we speak the same language

2622
01:42:39,990 --> 01:42:37,600
we're immersed in the same culture

2623
01:42:40,870 --> 01:42:40,000
um so i would probably pick up the phone

2624
01:42:43,990 --> 01:42:40,880
to lou

2625
01:42:45,270 --> 01:42:44,000
lou elizondo interesting answer there

2626
01:42:47,750 --> 01:42:45,280
you go nick pope

2627
01:42:48,870 --> 01:42:47,760
stay right there let's take our break

2628
01:42:52,149 --> 01:42:48,880
and when we come back

2629
01:42:52,950 --> 01:42:52,159
everybody nick everybody the internet

2630
01:42:55,510 --> 01:42:52,960
has gone

2631
01:42:56,229 --> 01:42:55,520
crazy with what is going on down there

2632
01:42:57,910 --> 01:42:56,239
in brazil

2633
01:43:00,310 --> 01:42:57,920
i have looked at the videos i've had

2634
01:43:03,189 --> 01:43:00,320
some videos sent to me personally

2635
01:43:03,910 --> 01:43:03,199
and reviewing these and looking at how

2636
01:43:07,030 --> 01:43:03,920
it's being

2637
01:43:08,629 --> 01:43:07,040
censored uh on the internet and what may

2638
01:43:09,990 --> 01:43:08,639
or may not be going on down there in

2639
01:43:12,310 --> 01:43:10,000
maize which is just

2640
01:43:13,990 --> 01:43:12,320
north of rio de janeiro is something

2641
01:43:16,070 --> 01:43:14,000
that we all need to take a look at

2642
01:43:17,990 --> 01:43:16,080
something happened down there in maize

2643
01:43:19,990 --> 01:43:18,000
our guest tonight nick pope will talk

2644
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:20,000
about brazil when we come back after

2645
01:43:26,010 --> 01:43:34,790
[Music]

2646
01:43:38,070 --> 01:43:37,189
welcome back pete to black i am your

2647
01:43:39,990 --> 01:43:38,080
host jimmy church

2648
01:43:41,430 --> 01:43:40,000
tonight nick pope is with this doing a

2649
01:43:44,629 --> 01:43:41,440
little overtime

2650
01:43:45,590 --> 01:43:44,639
lots of ufo news that's going on right

2651
01:43:49,510 --> 01:43:45,600
now

2652
01:43:52,790 --> 01:43:49,520
and it all started last wednesday

2653
01:43:55,750 --> 01:43:52,800
uh down in mage brazil and

2654
01:43:58,070 --> 01:43:55,760
nick on thursday morning i i got an

2655
01:44:01,750 --> 01:43:58,080
email that had a video

2656
01:44:05,510 --> 01:44:01,760
in it that was shot the night before of

2657
01:44:08,390 --> 01:44:05,520
what appears to me clearly appears to me

2658
01:44:10,470 --> 01:44:08,400
to be a meteorite a meteor turning into

2659
01:44:11,990 --> 01:44:10,480
a meteorite as it crashed into this

2660
01:44:14,950 --> 01:44:12,000
mountainside

2661
01:44:15,910 --> 01:44:14,960
down in maege uh what had happened on

2662
01:44:19,030 --> 01:44:15,920
wednesday

2663
01:44:22,070 --> 01:44:19,040
uh the night before uh i was

2664
01:44:25,430 --> 01:44:22,080
inundated with different uh

2665
01:44:28,790 --> 01:44:25,440
links to these twitter videos

2666
01:44:30,229 --> 01:44:28,800
of people all over the this town of

2667
01:44:33,430 --> 01:44:30,239
maize north of rio

2668
01:44:35,030 --> 01:44:33,440
de janeiro with lights in the sky so i

2669
01:44:36,550 --> 01:44:35,040
the wednesday night i was looking at

2670
01:44:38,229 --> 01:44:36,560
these videos

2671
01:44:39,990 --> 01:44:38,239
and you know all interesting we've seen

2672
01:44:42,390 --> 01:44:40,000
lights in the sky videos before

2673
01:44:43,590 --> 01:44:42,400
different uh round glowing objects

2674
01:44:46,790 --> 01:44:43,600
different colors

2675
01:44:49,350 --> 01:44:46,800
and then this video pops up the next day

2676
01:44:50,550 --> 01:44:49,360
of this thing crashing into the side of

2677
01:44:53,350 --> 01:44:50,560
the mountain

2678
01:44:55,270 --> 01:44:53,360
a very strange coincidence to be

2679
01:44:56,149 --> 01:44:55,280
happening at the same time what are the

2680
01:45:01,030 --> 01:44:56,159
odds

2681
01:45:03,270 --> 01:45:01,040
crashing into your town in the middle of

2682
01:45:05,270 --> 01:45:03,280
a ufo flap right

2683
01:45:07,430 --> 01:45:05,280
now the lights have been seen by

2684
01:45:11,109 --> 01:45:07,440
thousands of people and they were posted

2685
01:45:11,910 --> 01:45:11,119
up all over the place and a lot of these

2686
01:45:14,870 --> 01:45:11,920
videos

2687
01:45:15,590 --> 01:45:14,880
were censored and pulled down off of the

2688
01:45:17,030 --> 01:45:15,600
net

2689
01:45:19,109 --> 01:45:17,040
and i know that you've read these

2690
01:45:22,550 --> 01:45:19,119
reports uh

2691
01:45:24,229 --> 01:45:22,560
uh from what you have seen so far

2692
01:45:26,070 --> 01:45:24,239
what do you think may or may not be

2693
01:45:27,830 --> 01:45:26,080
going on

2694
01:45:29,270 --> 01:45:27,840
well i think like a lot of the ufo

2695
01:45:32,550 --> 01:45:29,280
phenomenon it's it's

2696
01:45:37,270 --> 01:45:32,560
sort of 95

2697
01:45:40,390 --> 01:45:37,280
noise 5 signal and i

2698
01:45:43,030 --> 01:45:40,400
put my hand up and confess i i simply

2699
01:45:44,149 --> 01:45:43,040
have not had time to look into this

2700
01:45:46,790 --> 01:45:44,159
personally i mean i

2701
01:45:49,270 --> 01:45:46,800
i i've been tied up with a whole bunch

2702
01:45:51,830 --> 01:45:49,280
of other things i'm still

2703
01:45:52,950 --> 01:45:51,840
dealing with media requests for the the

2704
01:45:56,229 --> 01:45:52,960
pentagon

2705
01:45:59,189 --> 01:45:56,239
story so i've been totally engaged on on

2706
01:46:00,950 --> 01:45:59,199
that and now you know every time i put

2707
01:46:03,750 --> 01:46:00,960
something up i i tell you what

2708
01:46:04,229 --> 01:46:03,760
you know i even put some photos up of

2709
01:46:07,669 --> 01:46:04,239
some

2710
01:46:11,109 --> 01:46:07,679
rock squirrels at our place in in

2711
01:46:12,470 --> 01:46:11,119
tucson and under the comments i get yeah

2712
01:46:13,669 --> 01:46:12,480
but what what do you think about what's

2713
01:46:15,750 --> 01:46:13,679
going on in brazil

2714
01:46:17,510 --> 01:46:15,760
you know i can't i can't do anything

2715
01:46:19,990 --> 01:46:17,520
without getting drawn into this i

2716
01:46:21,270 --> 01:46:20,000
i don't know i have not yet had time to

2717
01:46:23,189 --> 01:46:21,280
look into it

2718
01:46:24,390 --> 01:46:23,199
personally it's it's interesting i'm

2719
01:46:27,830 --> 01:46:24,400
following it

2720
01:46:28,629 --> 01:46:27,840
um carefully but i have not looked into

2721
01:46:30,550 --> 01:46:28,639
it

2722
01:46:32,870 --> 01:46:30,560
personally i don't have any inside

2723
01:46:35,590 --> 01:46:32,880
information from any of my former

2724
01:46:37,430 --> 01:46:35,600
colleagues in in government military

2725
01:46:38,709 --> 01:46:37,440
intelligence communities so i can't i

2726
01:46:42,070 --> 01:46:38,719
can't

2727
01:46:45,590 --> 01:46:42,080
add anything to this particular story is

2728
01:46:48,470 --> 01:46:45,600
doesn't brazil uh historically speaking

2729
01:46:49,590 --> 01:46:48,480
doesn't brazil uh like argentina and

2730
01:46:51,590 --> 01:46:49,600
like chile

2731
01:46:54,550 --> 01:46:51,600
you know take the subject of ufos and

2732
01:46:56,870 --> 01:46:54,560
e.t very seriously and they are

2733
01:46:59,830 --> 01:46:56,880
okay with discussing things with the

2734
01:47:03,430 --> 01:46:59,840
public right historically that has been

2735
01:47:06,070 --> 01:47:03,440
uh what has come out of brazil right

2736
01:47:07,590 --> 01:47:06,080
yes it absolutely there it and it's a

2737
01:47:10,709 --> 01:47:07,600
cultural

2738
01:47:14,550 --> 01:47:10,719
thing i was in brazil

2739
01:47:18,950 --> 01:47:14,560
i was in brazil for a couple of weeks

2740
01:47:21,990 --> 01:47:18,960
last year at the invitation of

2741
01:47:25,590 --> 01:47:22,000
h.a gervard we we

2742
01:47:28,709 --> 01:47:25,600
went around a number of different cities

2743
01:47:31,910 --> 01:47:28,719
there kuritiba recife uh

2744
01:47:34,550 --> 01:47:31,920
sao paulo um and and

2745
01:47:36,310 --> 01:47:34,560
and some other places and i really got

2746
01:47:38,550 --> 01:47:36,320
got a sense of of

2747
01:47:39,350 --> 01:47:38,560
the brazilian culture and the people and

2748
01:47:42,790 --> 01:47:39,360
the great

2749
01:47:44,870 --> 01:47:42,800
hospitality and then you know marvelous

2750
01:47:46,870 --> 01:47:44,880
people down there and it is very

2751
01:47:49,030 --> 01:47:46,880
different there there is a

2752
01:47:50,070 --> 01:47:49,040
you know a real difference in openness

2753
01:47:52,790 --> 01:47:50,080
about this

2754
01:47:54,470 --> 01:47:52,800
but uh you know none of that i'm afraid

2755
01:47:57,189 --> 01:47:54,480
gives me an insight into

2756
01:47:57,830 --> 01:47:57,199
to what's just happened down there but

2757
01:48:00,310 --> 01:47:57,840
it does

2758
01:48:01,109 --> 01:48:00,320
does tell me that absolutely the

2759
01:48:03,870 --> 01:48:01,119
government

2760
01:48:05,270 --> 01:48:03,880
has taken it seriously the military has

2761
01:48:06,950 --> 01:48:05,280
investigated

2762
01:48:09,270 --> 01:48:06,960
uh of course we know that the to the

2763
01:48:12,629 --> 01:48:09,280
stars campaign and

2764
01:48:16,229 --> 01:48:12,639
to the stars academy have have looked at

2765
01:48:19,430 --> 01:48:16,239
at this and they they've

2766
01:48:20,870 --> 01:48:19,440
been down there too so interesting times

2767
01:48:22,470 --> 01:48:20,880
some interesting things going on down

2768
01:48:26,229 --> 01:48:22,480
there for sure yeah why

2769
01:48:27,750 --> 01:48:26,239
is it uh and i made uh this comment

2770
01:48:29,669 --> 01:48:27,760
well a couple of times over the last

2771
01:48:32,870 --> 01:48:29,679
couple of weeks but

2772
01:48:36,470 --> 01:48:32,880
the ufo ufology

2773
01:48:38,629 --> 01:48:36,480
and this community every time

2774
01:48:40,310 --> 01:48:38,639
it seems that we're starting excuse me

2775
01:48:43,270 --> 01:48:40,320
something in my throat

2776
01:48:45,189 --> 01:48:43,280
every time that we start to settle down

2777
01:48:47,590 --> 01:48:45,199
and relax

2778
01:48:48,790 --> 01:48:47,600
there's another big story and something

2779
01:48:52,149 --> 01:48:48,800
breaking

2780
01:48:53,109 --> 01:48:52,159
that gets your heart and your adrenaline

2781
01:48:56,310 --> 01:48:53,119
pumping

2782
01:48:58,470 --> 01:48:56,320
more than things in the past it's like

2783
01:49:00,950 --> 01:48:58,480
the gift that keeps on giving

2784
01:49:01,590 --> 01:49:00,960
right do you feel the same thing that it

2785
01:49:05,030 --> 01:49:01,600
it's

2786
01:49:07,510 --> 01:49:05,040
are going to

2787
01:49:09,910 --> 01:49:07,520
continue to get more serious and more

2788
01:49:13,350 --> 01:49:09,920
revealing

2789
01:49:14,790 --> 01:49:13,360
yes i often like to say when when people

2790
01:49:16,870 --> 01:49:14,800
say

2791
01:49:17,910 --> 01:49:16,880
what do you think's coming next when is

2792
01:49:20,470 --> 01:49:17,920
the other

2793
01:49:21,430 --> 01:49:20,480
shoe going to drop what whatever the

2794
01:49:24,149 --> 01:49:21,440
phrase

2795
01:49:25,750 --> 01:49:24,159
people use i i always remind folks that

2796
01:49:29,109 --> 01:49:25,760
this is an events led

2797
01:49:31,430 --> 01:49:29,119
field and and

2798
01:49:32,470 --> 01:49:31,440
i i've often said and you know maybe

2799
01:49:35,430 --> 01:49:32,480
this will

2800
01:49:37,350 --> 01:49:35,440
turn out to be a true prediction with

2801
01:49:39,589 --> 01:49:37,360
what's going on in brazil but i always

2802
01:49:42,629 --> 01:49:39,599
say one never knows

2803
01:49:45,510 --> 01:49:42,639
suddenly and unexpectedly from left

2804
01:49:48,229 --> 01:49:45,520
field when the next roswell or the next

2805
01:49:51,270 --> 01:49:48,239
rental sham forest will suddenly come

2806
01:49:54,830 --> 01:49:51,280
do you think that roswell was

2807
01:49:57,830 --> 01:49:54,840
the ability to learn the art of the

2808
01:49:59,109 --> 01:49:57,840
cover-up and not to say that roswell was

2809
01:50:02,470 --> 01:49:59,119
alien in e.t

2810
01:50:05,910 --> 01:50:02,480
or that it wasn't but certainly the

2811
01:50:06,470 --> 01:50:05,920
the story changed many times all the way

2812
01:50:09,990 --> 01:50:06,480
up

2813
01:50:13,669 --> 01:50:10,000
uh to the gao report in

2814
01:50:17,030 --> 01:50:13,679
in the 90s where the story constantly

2815
01:50:19,030 --> 01:50:17,040
changed with roswell was that

2816
01:50:21,990 --> 01:50:19,040
how the art of the cover-up with this

2817
01:50:24,550 --> 01:50:22,000
stuff started

2818
01:50:26,070 --> 01:50:24,560
i don't know that it's how it started

2819
01:50:29,189 --> 01:50:26,080
but it was certainly

2820
01:50:32,790 --> 01:50:29,199
where it was demonstrated and

2821
01:50:35,109 --> 01:50:32,800
as you say one doesn't need to

2822
01:50:37,030 --> 01:50:35,119
postulate that this was extraterrestrial

2823
01:50:40,950 --> 01:50:37,040
or terrestrial or

2824
01:50:44,310 --> 01:50:40,960
whatever to say that

2825
01:50:45,189 --> 01:50:44,320
undoubtedly this is a perfect example of

2826
01:50:48,470 --> 01:50:45,199
where there was

2827
01:50:51,990 --> 01:50:48,480
one story on day one and

2828
01:50:56,070 --> 01:50:52,000
a completely different story on day two

2829
01:50:59,109 --> 01:50:56,080
and the flip took place

2830
01:51:00,070 --> 01:50:59,119
almost seamlessly and so yes answering

2831
01:51:02,229 --> 01:51:00,080
your question

2832
01:51:03,510 --> 01:51:02,239
absolutely if it's not where the art of

2833
01:51:07,270 --> 01:51:03,520
the cover-up was

2834
01:51:08,709 --> 01:51:07,280
was born or or even perfected it was

2835
01:51:12,709 --> 01:51:08,719
certainly where it was

2836
01:51:16,149 --> 01:51:12,719
eloquently demonstrated why is it

2837
01:51:18,229 --> 01:51:16,159
that nick it and it doesn't matter

2838
01:51:20,229 --> 01:51:18,239
it doesn't matter what the subject is

2839
01:51:22,790 --> 01:51:20,239
with ufology or

2840
01:51:24,310 --> 01:51:22,800
wherever your research is leading you

2841
01:51:28,390 --> 01:51:24,320
wherever you go

2842
01:51:31,750 --> 01:51:28,400
in any direction the trail doesn't end

2843
01:51:33,109 --> 01:51:31,760
right that nothing gets resolved why is

2844
01:51:36,390 --> 01:51:33,119
that

2845
01:51:39,510 --> 01:51:36,400
still being written

2846
01:51:40,390 --> 01:51:39,520
and um it's a story that has a beginning

2847
01:51:42,870 --> 01:51:40,400
in the middle

2848
01:51:43,589 --> 01:51:42,880
but we don't yet have the end yeah

2849
01:51:47,510 --> 01:51:43,599
because

2850
01:51:50,070 --> 01:51:47,520
a classic example of that is one that is

2851
01:51:51,189 --> 01:51:50,080
you know the most tangible which is

2852
01:51:53,510 --> 01:51:51,199
rendlesham

2853
01:51:54,229 --> 01:51:53,520
right it's right there in front of us

2854
01:51:56,310 --> 01:51:54,239
it's it's

2855
01:51:58,550 --> 01:51:56,320
right there all of the evidence and the

2856
01:52:01,589 --> 01:51:58,560
research that we can handle

2857
01:52:03,270 --> 01:52:01,599
is right in front of us and we still

2858
01:52:04,790 --> 01:52:03,280
can't get to the bottom

2859
01:52:07,109 --> 01:52:04,800
right exactly we can't you know you

2860
01:52:09,669 --> 01:52:07,119
might say what more do people want

2861
01:52:11,589 --> 01:52:09,679
um but yeah there is always more

2862
01:52:12,470 --> 01:52:11,599
there'll always be a new witness a new

2863
01:52:14,629 --> 01:52:12,480
document

2864
01:52:16,790 --> 01:52:14,639
a new theory and we're coming out to the

2865
01:52:19,189 --> 01:52:16,800
40th anniversary this december

2866
01:52:20,390 --> 01:52:19,199
and uh my goodness you know perhaps you

2867
01:52:23,589 --> 01:52:20,400
and i will be doing

2868
01:52:25,030 --> 01:52:23,599
uh interviews about this um when we come

2869
01:52:28,149 --> 01:52:25,040
up to the 80th anniversary

2870
01:52:28,870 --> 01:52:28,159
yeah we certainly will yeah we certainly

2871
01:52:32,870 --> 01:52:28,880
will

2872
01:52:35,910 --> 01:52:32,880
and what is your explanation for

2873
01:52:38,950 --> 01:52:35,920
uh i've done i've done interviews

2874
01:52:41,430 --> 01:52:38,960
not only with you but every player uh

2875
01:52:44,950 --> 01:52:41,440
in rendelsham i've done stuff privately

2876
01:52:47,990 --> 01:52:44,960
i've done stuff off of the record and

2877
01:52:50,709 --> 01:52:48,000
and have had things revealed to me

2878
01:52:52,149 --> 01:52:50,719
but the one thing that i have walked

2879
01:52:55,589 --> 01:52:52,159
away from

2880
01:52:59,189 --> 01:52:55,599
is that nobody at rendelsham has

2881
01:53:01,189 --> 01:52:59,199
a shared experience

2882
01:53:02,310 --> 01:53:01,199
why don't you find that the most

2883
01:53:05,910 --> 01:53:02,320
interesting that

2884
01:53:08,390 --> 01:53:05,920
everybody has a different recollection

2885
01:53:09,589 --> 01:53:08,400
and a different take on rendelsham

2886
01:53:12,709 --> 01:53:09,599
forest

2887
01:53:13,750 --> 01:53:12,719
absolutely i i don't want to quote

2888
01:53:15,830 --> 01:53:13,760
myself

2889
01:53:18,470 --> 01:53:15,840
and i certainly don't want to misquote

2890
01:53:21,189 --> 01:53:18,480
myself but i think i am going to

2891
01:53:22,070 --> 01:53:21,199
somewhere in encounter in remelsham

2892
01:53:25,189 --> 01:53:22,080
forest

2893
01:53:28,790 --> 01:53:25,199
where i talk about the first night

2894
01:53:32,470 --> 01:53:28,800
borrows peniston and kivanasak

2895
01:53:34,629 --> 01:53:32,480
i write a line and it's something like

2896
01:53:36,629 --> 01:53:34,639
three people walked into the forest that

2897
01:53:38,550 --> 01:53:36,639
night and each of them came out with a

2898
01:53:41,669 --> 01:53:38,560
different story

2899
01:53:44,149 --> 01:53:41,679
and that's not to say

2900
01:53:45,910 --> 01:53:44,159
any of them were making anything up what

2901
01:53:49,350 --> 01:53:45,920
i'm talking about there is

2902
01:53:50,149 --> 01:53:49,360
is firstly the fact that these people

2903
01:53:52,310 --> 01:53:50,159
are different

2904
01:53:53,990 --> 01:53:52,320
individuals different characters

2905
01:53:56,950 --> 01:53:54,000
different personalities

2906
01:53:58,550 --> 01:53:56,960
different perceptions and belief systems

2907
01:54:00,470 --> 01:53:58,560
but secondly

2908
01:54:02,629 --> 01:54:00,480
who's to say that they did actually

2909
01:54:04,790 --> 01:54:02,639
experience the same thing

2910
01:54:05,990 --> 01:54:04,800
there's there's a there's always the

2911
01:54:08,709 --> 01:54:06,000
kind of

2912
01:54:11,270 --> 01:54:08,719
the variable the trickster the the

2913
01:54:13,750 --> 01:54:11,280
uncertainty principle with a lot of this

2914
01:54:15,910 --> 01:54:13,760
and we just don't know sometimes

2915
01:54:18,070 --> 01:54:15,920
sometimes it's not what you want to hear

2916
01:54:19,510 --> 01:54:18,080
you know people like neat answers and

2917
01:54:22,629 --> 01:54:19,520
perfect solutions

2918
01:54:24,149 --> 01:54:22,639
but i'm sorry in this subject that's not

2919
01:54:27,350 --> 01:54:24,159
what you're dealing with

2920
01:54:27,990 --> 01:54:27,360
and there is a and and i i can throw

2921
01:54:31,109 --> 01:54:28,000
myself

2922
01:54:34,229 --> 01:54:31,119
into this uh section of people

2923
01:54:36,390 --> 01:54:34,239
it is very difficult to change our minds

2924
01:54:37,990 --> 01:54:36,400
once they've been made up right i've

2925
01:54:41,030 --> 01:54:38,000
been looking at rendal shim

2926
01:54:41,270 --> 01:54:41,040
since it first surfaced uh i've looked

2927
01:54:43,270 --> 01:54:41,280
at

2928
01:54:44,870 --> 01:54:43,280
and listened to and spoke to you know

2929
01:54:46,950 --> 01:54:44,880
all of this evidence

2930
01:54:48,149 --> 01:54:46,960
and i've come to my own conclusions and

2931
01:54:49,750 --> 01:54:48,159
then when we

2932
01:54:51,750 --> 01:54:49,760
and i'm just like everybody else in the

2933
01:54:53,990 --> 01:54:51,760
ufo community nick

2934
01:54:56,149 --> 01:54:54,000
and then he suggests something like uh

2935
01:54:57,910 --> 01:54:56,159
time travel from peniston

2936
01:54:59,430 --> 01:54:57,920
and i have to back up i listen to

2937
01:55:01,990 --> 01:54:59,440
everybody but

2938
01:55:02,470 --> 01:55:02,000
is this is this enough for me to change

2939
01:55:06,629 --> 01:55:02,480
my

2940
01:55:09,270 --> 01:55:06,639
mind when indeed he was there

2941
01:55:11,270 --> 01:55:09,280
i wasn't there and neither was the rest

2942
01:55:12,629 --> 01:55:11,280
of the ufo community and that includes

2943
01:55:16,149 --> 01:55:12,639
nick redfearn in

2944
01:55:18,870 --> 01:55:16,159
in the new book it's it's people's

2945
01:55:19,589 --> 01:55:18,880
belief systems are going to be what they

2946
01:55:21,750 --> 01:55:19,599
are

2947
01:55:24,870 --> 01:55:21,760
and it is difficult to change them and

2948
01:55:28,070 --> 01:55:24,880
that includes all of the witnesses right

2949
01:55:29,109 --> 01:55:28,080
it does but you know what if if this if

2950
01:55:30,950 --> 01:55:29,119
my

2951
01:55:32,550 --> 01:55:30,960
government involvement in this has

2952
01:55:35,030 --> 01:55:32,560
taught me one thing

2953
01:55:35,669 --> 01:55:35,040
it's taught me that when i hear somebody

2954
01:55:40,870 --> 01:55:35,679
say

2955
01:55:43,910 --> 01:55:40,880
i don't know or i've changed my mind

2956
01:55:46,310 --> 01:55:43,920
i pay more attention to that person than

2957
01:55:48,390 --> 01:55:46,320
i do to the person who jabs his finger

2958
01:55:48,870 --> 01:55:48,400
at me and says let me tell you what this

2959
01:55:52,070 --> 01:55:48,880
was

2960
01:55:53,990 --> 01:55:52,080
right right right yeah true

2961
01:55:57,189 --> 01:55:54,000
words have never been spoken you know

2962
01:56:00,709 --> 01:55:57,199
and i try to instill that in everybody

2963
01:56:03,030 --> 01:56:00,719
um because now today i'm not

2964
01:56:04,790 --> 01:56:03,040
i'm not necessarily leaning on a

2965
01:56:07,669 --> 01:56:04,800
government experiment

2966
01:56:09,350 --> 01:56:07,679
but the time travel aspect as suggested

2967
01:56:11,109 --> 01:56:09,360
by peniston

2968
01:56:12,629 --> 01:56:11,119
is is something that we need to take a

2969
01:56:15,189 --> 01:56:12,639
closer look at

2970
01:56:16,149 --> 01:56:15,199
and and we can't dismiss that and

2971
01:56:19,270 --> 01:56:16,159
certainly

2972
01:56:20,229 --> 01:56:19,280
we can't dismiss the one witness the one

2973
01:56:23,030 --> 01:56:20,239
witness

2974
01:56:23,910 --> 01:56:23,040
that was physically there touching this

2975
01:56:25,910 --> 01:56:23,920
craft

2976
01:56:28,390 --> 01:56:25,920
we have to listen to him more closely

2977
01:56:31,589 --> 01:56:28,400
than others i would think right

2978
01:56:32,550 --> 01:56:31,599
indeed those who were there should be

2979
01:56:36,070 --> 01:56:32,560
listened to

2980
01:56:38,870 --> 01:56:36,080
now when when

2981
01:56:39,510 --> 01:56:38,880
you were at the mod and i know that

2982
01:56:41,830 --> 01:56:39,520
you've been

2983
01:56:43,189 --> 01:56:41,840
presented these questions or these ideas

2984
01:56:46,229 --> 01:56:43,199
for a long time

2985
01:56:49,350 --> 01:56:46,239
but how was the mod looking at

2986
01:56:52,950 --> 01:56:51,589
from a defense and national security

2987
01:56:56,390 --> 01:56:52,960
perspective

2988
01:57:01,350 --> 01:56:56,400
all these events were looked at in

2989
01:57:04,470 --> 01:57:01,360
that way these were in and of themselves

2990
01:57:05,830 --> 01:57:04,480
incursions into the united kingdom air

2991
01:57:08,950 --> 01:57:05,840
defense region

2992
01:57:12,229 --> 01:57:08,960
and and were treated as such but

2993
01:57:12,950 --> 01:57:12,239
was there uh was there a united states

2994
01:57:15,270 --> 01:57:12,960
air force

2995
01:57:16,629 --> 01:57:15,280
aspect to this too as well even though

2996
01:57:17,510 --> 01:57:16,639
it happened on the other side of the

2997
01:57:21,109 --> 01:57:17,520
fence

2998
01:57:24,390 --> 01:57:21,119
right absolutely yes yes i mean this

2999
01:57:27,750 --> 01:57:24,400
this was british soil but

3000
01:57:30,870 --> 01:57:27,760
usaf bases and and there was a whole

3001
01:57:34,229 --> 01:57:30,880
bunch of um

3002
01:57:36,390 --> 01:57:34,239
agreements and legislation uh the the

3003
01:57:39,510 --> 01:57:36,400
overarching agreement was the

3004
01:57:43,270 --> 01:57:39,520
the nato status of forces agreement

3005
01:57:45,189 --> 01:57:43,280
but many many different agreements and

3006
01:57:48,790 --> 01:57:45,199
memoranda of understanding

3007
01:57:51,709 --> 01:57:48,800
governing the very very complex

3008
01:57:53,510 --> 01:57:51,719
legal procedural administrative

3009
01:57:55,350 --> 01:57:53,520
interrelationship between

3010
01:57:56,790 --> 01:57:55,360
the british and the american government

3011
01:57:59,109 --> 01:57:56,800
here now

3012
01:58:00,709 --> 01:57:59,119
much has met been made with with

3013
01:58:03,750 --> 01:58:00,719
malmstrom

3014
01:58:05,270 --> 01:58:03,760
and ufo activity over different nuclear

3015
01:58:07,350 --> 01:58:05,280
missile sites

3016
01:58:08,870 --> 01:58:07,360
well documented and discussed for many

3017
01:58:09,669 --> 01:58:08,880
years and you're familiar with all of

3018
01:58:11,990 --> 01:58:09,679
that

3019
01:58:13,189 --> 01:58:12,000
but certainly this question has come up

3020
01:58:16,070 --> 01:58:13,199
with uh

3021
01:58:16,950 --> 01:58:16,080
woodbridge and rendelsham whether there

3022
01:58:19,990 --> 01:58:16,960
was

3023
01:58:23,350 --> 01:58:20,000
nuclear uh weapons

3024
01:58:25,350 --> 01:58:23,360
there or not the official stance is

3025
01:58:27,270 --> 01:58:25,360
there wasn't there was no nuclear

3026
01:58:29,030 --> 01:58:27,280
weapons by the united states air force

3027
01:58:32,070 --> 01:58:29,040
on british soil

3028
01:58:33,109 --> 01:58:32,080
was this a concern for the mod when

3029
01:58:36,149 --> 01:58:33,119
these revelations

3030
01:58:39,350 --> 01:58:36,159
started to show up well i'm

3031
01:58:42,229 --> 01:58:39,360
fairly sure that the the line

3032
01:58:44,790 --> 01:58:42,239
was that we neither confirm nor deny the

3033
01:58:47,990 --> 01:58:44,800
presence of nuclear weapons at any

3034
01:58:50,470 --> 01:58:48,000
specific location at any

3035
01:58:51,910 --> 01:58:50,480
particular time and that's a line that

3036
01:58:55,430 --> 01:58:51,920
i'm going to have to speak

3037
01:58:57,830 --> 01:58:55,440
right but the i'm

3038
01:58:59,510 --> 01:58:57,840
speaking directly about the ufo aspect

3039
01:59:03,270 --> 01:58:59,520
of this

3040
01:59:03,910 --> 01:59:03,280
when colonel halts as you're well aware

3041
01:59:06,390 --> 01:59:03,920
of

3042
01:59:07,109 --> 01:59:06,400
uh said that there were lights above

3043
01:59:10,870 --> 01:59:07,119
these

3044
01:59:14,390 --> 01:59:10,880
uh ammunition uh uh

3045
01:59:17,030 --> 01:59:14,400
bunkers that were beaming down lights

3046
01:59:18,629 --> 01:59:17,040
towards these facilities that would

3047
01:59:19,750 --> 01:59:18,639
indicate that they were looking at the

3048
01:59:23,350 --> 01:59:19,760
weapons

3049
01:59:25,910 --> 01:59:23,360
nuclear or not right

3050
01:59:26,550 --> 01:59:25,920
yes colonel hall has certainly referred

3051
01:59:30,229 --> 01:59:26,560
as have

3052
01:59:33,990 --> 01:59:30,239
others to the weapons storage areas

3053
01:59:36,790 --> 01:59:34,000
but i think colonel halt and i

3054
01:59:37,189 --> 01:59:36,800
are very very careful not to discuss

3055
01:59:39,910 --> 01:59:37,199
what

3056
01:59:41,510 --> 01:59:39,920
specific types of ordnance may or may

3057
01:59:43,750 --> 01:59:41,520
not have been involved

3058
01:59:45,270 --> 01:59:43,760
yeah and he is he has stated that very

3059
01:59:48,070 --> 01:59:45,280
clearly on this show

3060
01:59:49,109 --> 01:59:48,080
he will not he will not go there which i

3061
01:59:52,629 --> 01:59:49,119
understand

3062
01:59:55,669 --> 01:59:52,639
but it seems to me that uh

3063
01:59:58,470 --> 01:59:55,679
if this is e.t that they are

3064
02:00:00,629 --> 01:59:58,480
really interested in our technology and

3065
02:00:02,149 --> 02:00:00,639
our research and certainly offensive and

3066
02:00:04,470 --> 02:00:02,159
defensive weapons

3067
02:00:06,390 --> 02:00:04,480
that the curiosity seems to be there for

3068
02:00:09,750 --> 02:00:06,400
them doesn't it

3069
02:00:12,709 --> 02:00:09,760
well i i think you could

3070
02:00:13,990 --> 02:00:12,719
one can make very few realistic

3071
02:00:15,990 --> 02:00:14,000
assumptions about what an

3072
02:00:17,669 --> 02:00:16,000
extraterrestrial civilization may or may

3073
02:00:19,629 --> 02:00:17,679
not be interested in from a

3074
02:00:20,870 --> 02:00:19,639
sort of scientific technical

3075
02:00:22,950 --> 02:00:20,880
anthropological

3076
02:00:23,910 --> 02:00:22,960
perspective but i think one thing that

3077
02:00:26,790 --> 02:00:23,920
you could

3078
02:00:29,030 --> 02:00:26,800
say is a fair assumption is that they

3079
02:00:32,149 --> 02:00:29,040
would be interested in the cutting edge

3080
02:00:32,470 --> 02:00:32,159
of our technology and in any technology

3081
02:00:35,669 --> 02:00:32,480
that

3082
02:00:38,390 --> 02:00:35,679
might pose a threat yeah because

3083
02:00:41,109 --> 02:00:38,400
i don't hear i don't hear reports about

3084
02:00:44,550 --> 02:00:41,119
ufos over a donut factory

3085
02:00:45,990 --> 02:00:44,560
right okay that's because they've been

3086
02:00:49,270 --> 02:00:46,000
covered up

3087
02:00:49,830 --> 02:00:49,280
we all know that yeah and and i always

3088
02:00:52,870 --> 02:00:49,840
find that

3089
02:00:56,709 --> 02:00:52,880
interesting and that uh

3090
02:00:58,550 --> 02:00:56,719
the focus even for uh civilians that

3091
02:01:00,310 --> 02:00:58,560
have nothing to do with the military and

3092
02:01:01,270 --> 02:01:00,320
they don't follow that aspect of our

3093
02:01:04,629 --> 02:01:01,280
lives

3094
02:01:06,550 --> 02:01:04,639
but uh their reports

3095
02:01:08,870 --> 02:01:06,560
and and the things that they have seen

3096
02:01:11,109 --> 02:01:08,880
over military installations

3097
02:01:13,270 --> 02:01:11,119
is is always very interesting to me

3098
02:01:15,270 --> 02:01:13,280
because i don't hear about

3099
02:01:18,149 --> 02:01:15,280
you know an alien abduction at a

3100
02:01:20,709 --> 02:01:18,159
mcdonald's or an in-n-out burger

3101
02:01:21,750 --> 02:01:20,719
in downtown tucson i don't hear those

3102
02:01:27,510 --> 02:01:21,760
reports it's

3103
02:01:30,790 --> 02:01:30,070
yes i think that's a fair assumption

3104
02:01:33,030 --> 02:01:30,800
nick pope

3105
02:01:34,790 --> 02:01:33,040
what's next for you what now i know that

3106
02:01:37,990 --> 02:01:34,800
you're how are you doing

3107
02:01:40,149 --> 02:01:38,000
uh with this stay-at-home stuff are

3108
02:01:42,070 --> 02:01:40,159
you behaving and have you gotten your

3109
02:01:44,229 --> 02:01:42,080
hair cut

3110
02:01:46,310 --> 02:01:44,239
well you know what elizabeth cuts my

3111
02:01:47,270 --> 02:01:46,320
hair all the time anyway has done for

3112
02:01:50,310 --> 02:01:47,280
years so

3113
02:01:52,790 --> 02:01:50,320
um and very well too i should say and

3114
02:01:54,870 --> 02:01:52,800
uh so everything you see in tv is all

3115
02:01:58,790 --> 02:01:54,880
all hair by elizabeth so

3116
02:01:59,350 --> 02:01:58,800
so no change there um i'm pleased to say

3117
02:02:06,629 --> 02:01:59,360
that

3118
02:02:09,669 --> 02:02:06,639
being flattened we've done our um

3119
02:02:11,830 --> 02:02:09,679
14-day national shutdown which

3120
02:02:13,189 --> 02:02:11,840
mysteriously segued into two months but

3121
02:02:16,390 --> 02:02:13,199
that's another story

3122
02:02:20,629 --> 02:02:16,400
and um arizona certainly where i am now

3123
02:02:22,390 --> 02:02:20,639
is is reopening so um that's all good

3124
02:02:24,390 --> 02:02:22,400
are you going to be speaking are you

3125
02:02:25,830 --> 02:02:24,400
going to uh start to venture out

3126
02:02:28,149 --> 02:02:25,840
is there anything that you're going to

3127
02:02:30,470 --> 02:02:28,159
be doing in 2020

3128
02:02:31,510 --> 02:02:30,480
oh well we're venturing out anyway i

3129
02:02:34,709 --> 02:02:31,520
mean i i

3130
02:02:35,430 --> 02:02:34,719
you know this is a whole nother show of

3131
02:02:38,310 --> 02:02:35,440
course and

3132
02:02:39,350 --> 02:02:38,320
and whether you agree or not but i i

3133
02:02:42,390 --> 02:02:39,360
think uh

3134
02:02:46,470 --> 02:02:42,400
unless you're in one of the categories

3135
02:02:49,589 --> 02:02:46,480
sadly but genuinely affected by this

3136
02:02:51,910 --> 02:02:49,599
you're not at any particular risk so so

3137
02:02:52,950 --> 02:02:51,920
i'm i'm not worried but obviously we

3138
02:02:56,390 --> 02:02:52,960
have to follow

3139
02:02:58,390 --> 02:02:56,400
whatever regulations are

3140
02:03:00,229 --> 02:02:58,400
are sort of put down and it may well be

3141
02:03:03,270 --> 02:03:00,239
that the the

3142
02:03:04,550 --> 02:03:03,280
conference and convention scene is is on

3143
02:03:07,669 --> 02:03:04,560
hold for a while

3144
02:03:11,990 --> 02:03:07,679
longer that's fine you know i'm i'm

3145
02:03:14,070 --> 02:03:12,000
still doing various other things um

3146
02:03:15,189 --> 02:03:14,080
i'm doing obviously one thing that

3147
02:03:18,709 --> 02:03:15,199
you've probably seen

3148
02:03:20,870 --> 02:03:18,719
a lot of is the basement office this new

3149
02:03:22,149 --> 02:03:20,880
series that stephen green street at new

3150
02:03:24,709 --> 02:03:22,159
york post and i

3151
02:03:25,589 --> 02:03:24,719
are doing so that's that's fun and

3152
02:03:29,109 --> 02:03:25,599
interesting

3153
02:03:32,149 --> 02:03:29,119
uh conferences will be back i'm sure um

3154
02:03:35,189 --> 02:03:32,159
hopefully later this year if not

3155
02:03:36,229 --> 02:03:35,199
back with a vengeance in in 2021 i think

3156
02:03:40,709 --> 02:03:36,239
people

3157
02:03:44,470 --> 02:03:40,719
interaction

3158
02:03:47,350 --> 02:03:44,480
that um socializing and uh will will be

3159
02:03:48,229 --> 02:03:47,360
ready to rock when when everything gets

3160
02:03:50,149 --> 02:03:48,239
back to normal

3161
02:03:51,589 --> 02:03:50,159
where can everybody see the basement

3162
02:03:54,790 --> 02:03:51,599
series

3163
02:03:58,149 --> 02:03:54,800
it's on the new york post's website

3164
02:04:01,350 --> 02:03:58,159
and on their youtube channel and

3165
02:04:03,669 --> 02:04:01,360
and also stephen green street and

3166
02:04:04,950 --> 02:04:03,679
who's the creator and host of this and

3167
02:04:08,149 --> 02:04:04,960
and uh

3168
02:04:11,270 --> 02:04:08,159
and myself we we tweeted

3169
02:04:11,589 --> 02:04:11,280
um when every episode goes live and and

3170
02:04:13,589 --> 02:04:11,599
the

3171
02:04:15,430 --> 02:04:13,599
new episodes go live every every

3172
02:04:18,470 --> 02:04:15,440
wednesday yeah i i

3173
02:04:19,430 --> 02:04:18,480
i've been watching them and and i gotta

3174
02:04:22,390 --> 02:04:19,440
say

3175
02:04:23,589 --> 02:04:22,400
really good stuff nick thank you yeah

3176
02:04:26,870 --> 02:04:23,599
it's it's been a real

3177
02:04:29,030 --> 02:04:26,880
sort of left field hit people are very

3178
02:04:30,229 --> 02:04:29,040
used to the kind of traditional format

3179
02:04:33,350 --> 02:04:30,239
of ufo

3180
02:04:35,430 --> 02:04:33,360
shows on on tv this is something new and

3181
02:04:37,910 --> 02:04:35,440
it seems to have bridged the gap between

3182
02:04:40,229 --> 02:04:37,920
the newcomers and the deep specialists

3183
02:04:41,669 --> 02:04:40,239
both of whom like it and that's a really

3184
02:04:44,709 --> 02:04:41,679
tough balance to get

3185
02:04:45,109 --> 02:04:44,719
get right yeah do you think that uh now

3186
02:04:48,149 --> 02:04:45,119
that

3187
02:04:50,229 --> 02:04:48,159
you guys are venturing into this uh

3188
02:04:52,069 --> 02:04:50,239
and and it is great and the and the

3189
02:04:54,470 --> 02:04:52,079
views out there have been

3190
02:04:55,430 --> 02:04:54,480
and the response has been really cool

3191
02:04:58,790 --> 02:04:55,440
and but on

3192
02:05:02,310 --> 02:04:58,800
on the other side of all of this is what

3193
02:05:03,030 --> 02:05:02,320
youtube and and twitter and facebook and

3194
02:05:05,030 --> 02:05:03,040
others

3195
02:05:06,069 --> 02:05:05,040
that are dealing with some of these

3196
02:05:09,589 --> 02:05:06,079
topics

3197
02:05:10,950 --> 02:05:09,599
uh with censorship do you think that

3198
02:05:14,069 --> 02:05:10,960
that is something that

3199
02:05:16,870 --> 02:05:14,079
maybe facebook and everybody should uh

3200
02:05:19,109 --> 02:05:16,880
uh back off of uh the censorship in

3201
02:05:21,830 --> 02:05:19,119
these fringe areas

3202
02:05:23,189 --> 02:05:21,840
yeah i i think unless something really

3203
02:05:26,310 --> 02:05:23,199
literally physically

3204
02:05:28,390 --> 02:05:26,320
harms someone um one

3205
02:05:30,870 --> 02:05:28,400
one should take a very hands-off

3206
02:05:33,910 --> 02:05:30,880
approach with this sort of thing

3207
02:05:34,709 --> 02:05:33,920
and i think uh certainly the basement

3208
02:05:37,750 --> 02:05:34,719
office

3209
02:05:40,950 --> 02:05:37,760
has has really i i think

3210
02:05:44,069 --> 02:05:40,960
uh given people in insight into this uh

3211
02:05:46,149 --> 02:05:44,079
newcomers and and old hands alike

3212
02:05:47,510 --> 02:05:46,159
yeah thank you so much nick what a great

3213
02:05:49,990 --> 02:05:47,520
conversation and

3214
02:05:52,350 --> 02:05:50,000
everything is over at uh nickpope.net

3215
02:05:53,910 --> 02:05:52,360
too as well the links are over at

3216
02:05:55,669 --> 02:05:53,920
jimmychurchradio.com

3217
02:05:57,350 --> 02:05:55,679
nick be safe out there and i look

3218
02:06:00,709 --> 02:05:57,360
forward to seeing you soon

3219
02:06:01,350 --> 02:06:00,719
it's thanksgiving it's been a chat to

3220
02:06:04,790 --> 02:06:01,360
you again

3221
02:06:08,229 --> 02:06:04,800
you're the best thank you nick nick

3222
02:06:11,470 --> 02:06:08,239
pope and again nickpope.net and the

3223
02:06:16,310 --> 02:06:12,870
jimmychurchradio.com

3224
02:06:19,910 --> 02:06:16,320
what a great conversation now a

3225
02:06:20,790 --> 02:06:19,920
couple of takeaways before we sign off

3226
02:06:22,709 --> 02:06:20,800
tonight

3227
02:06:23,910 --> 02:06:22,719
i know that everybody caught this and i

3228
02:06:27,270 --> 02:06:23,920
was watching

3229
02:06:29,669 --> 02:06:27,280
uh the action there on twitter uh

3230
02:06:31,430 --> 02:06:29,679
when nick said and i'm wondering what

3231
02:06:34,790 --> 02:06:31,440
kind of slip it was

3232
02:06:37,830 --> 02:06:34,800
where he said that he was mostly gone

3233
02:06:41,109 --> 02:06:37,840
now i'm not here to

3234
02:06:42,149 --> 02:06:41,119
i'm not here to uh put suspicion on

3235
02:06:45,750 --> 02:06:42,159
whether nick is

3236
02:06:48,870 --> 02:06:45,760
still with the mod or not uh

3237
02:06:50,470 --> 02:06:48,880
he has clearly retired that part i have

3238
02:06:55,189 --> 02:06:50,480
no issue with at all

3239
02:06:58,870 --> 02:06:55,199
but i think he has the ability

3240
02:07:01,910 --> 02:06:58,880
to reach out when he has to

3241
02:07:05,350 --> 02:07:01,920
or the flip side that they know

3242
02:07:06,149 --> 02:07:05,360
nick is well spoken and and he is

3243
02:07:08,709 --> 02:07:06,159
listened to

3244
02:07:10,310 --> 02:07:08,719
and respected in the ufo community and

3245
02:07:10,790 --> 02:07:10,320
if there is something that needs to be

3246
02:07:13,990 --> 02:07:10,800
said

3247
02:07:15,109 --> 02:07:14,000
maybe it's back channeled uh to him and

3248
02:07:18,229 --> 02:07:15,119
i would hope that that

3249
02:07:20,709 --> 02:07:18,239
is the way that uh it it is

3250
02:07:21,669 --> 02:07:20,719
i don't look at it any other way i

3251
02:07:24,950 --> 02:07:21,679
enjoyed

3252
02:07:29,109 --> 02:07:24,960
the slip though and that is

3253
02:07:32,229 --> 02:07:29,119
that is the one thing about live radio

3254
02:07:33,270 --> 02:07:32,239
there are no take backs you can't do an

3255
02:07:36,229 --> 02:07:33,280
overdub

3256
02:07:36,629 --> 02:07:36,239
you can't punch in the vocals you can't

3257
02:07:40,629 --> 02:07:36,639
click

3258
02:07:42,470 --> 02:07:40,639
rewind and uh we all caught that and he

3259
02:07:45,109 --> 02:07:42,480
caught himself too but

3260
02:07:45,750 --> 02:07:45,119
uh i think that that is a very revealing

3261
02:07:49,030 --> 02:07:45,760
statement

3262
02:07:52,310 --> 02:07:49,040
in that well you know yeah mostly

3263
02:07:54,950 --> 02:07:52,320
but if they you would hope that

3264
02:07:55,910 --> 02:07:54,960
nick does have access and that people

3265
02:07:59,350 --> 02:07:55,920
have access

3266
02:08:01,189 --> 02:07:59,360
to him if need be and i think that is

3267
02:08:03,030 --> 02:08:01,199
probably the mostly comment

3268
02:08:04,709 --> 02:08:03,040
i'll leave it up the rest and leave it

3269
02:08:08,069 --> 02:08:04,719
up to the rest of you

3270
02:08:09,990 --> 02:08:08,079
to uh to read into that but i really

3271
02:08:11,109 --> 02:08:10,000
enjoyed it and that is the best part of

3272
02:08:14,310 --> 02:08:11,119
live radio

3273
02:08:17,669 --> 02:08:14,320
when something like that happens so

3274
02:08:18,790 --> 02:08:17,679
there you go again we have an amazing

3275
02:08:20,950 --> 02:08:18,800
week here

3276
02:08:22,069 --> 02:08:20,960
uh coming up on fade to black of course

3277
02:08:25,109 --> 02:08:22,079
tonight uh

3278
02:08:25,990 --> 02:08:25,119
nick pope tomorrow night greg housh is

3279
02:08:29,109 --> 02:08:26,000
here

3280
02:08:31,270 --> 02:08:29,119
and what is happening right now and the

3281
02:08:32,310 --> 02:08:31,280
news of this over the weekend as it

3282
02:08:36,149 --> 02:08:32,320
broke

3283
02:08:39,910 --> 02:08:36,159
uh was absolutely shocking and to have

3284
02:08:43,030 --> 02:08:39,920
our evil a hacking group successfully

3285
02:08:45,910 --> 02:08:43,040
uh get to uh rob

3286
02:08:46,790 --> 02:08:45,920
grubman and his new york entertainment

3287
02:08:49,669 --> 02:08:46,800
law firm

3288
02:08:51,430 --> 02:08:49,679
that represents the very top of the

3289
02:08:54,470 --> 02:08:51,440
entertainment industry

3290
02:08:56,390 --> 02:08:54,480
and to get 700 gigabytes of personal

3291
02:08:59,589 --> 02:08:56,400
data

3292
02:09:01,910 --> 02:08:59,599
from his systems that were supposedly

3293
02:09:02,709 --> 02:09:01,920
very secure and locked down and then to

3294
02:09:05,750 --> 02:09:02,719
turn around

3295
02:09:07,990 --> 02:09:05,760
and double the ransom for from 21

3296
02:09:11,350 --> 02:09:08,000
million dollars to 42

3297
02:09:14,629 --> 02:09:11,360
stating that they had dirt

3298
02:09:15,990 --> 02:09:14,639
on president trump this is what is

3299
02:09:18,870 --> 02:09:16,000
interesting about that

3300
02:09:19,910 --> 02:09:18,880
and why we're bringing uh greg on to the

3301
02:09:22,470 --> 02:09:19,920
show tomorrow night

3302
02:09:23,990 --> 02:09:22,480
one is to how you breach the security

3303
02:09:26,790 --> 02:09:24,000
and the significance of it

3304
02:09:27,350 --> 02:09:26,800
but the other part of it is uh there was

3305
02:09:30,470 --> 02:09:27,360
nothing

3306
02:09:33,030 --> 02:09:30,480
that was done wrong normally

3307
02:09:34,629 --> 02:09:33,040
uh by this law firm normally these hacks

3308
02:09:36,310 --> 02:09:34,639
happen because they need to make an

3309
02:09:39,830 --> 02:09:36,320
example of somebody

3310
02:09:42,470 --> 02:09:39,840
and and somebody misbehaved

3311
02:09:43,350 --> 02:09:42,480
that clearly isn't the case here and

3312
02:09:46,390 --> 02:09:43,360
second

3313
02:09:47,830 --> 02:09:46,400
president trump was never a client of

3314
02:09:50,629 --> 02:09:47,840
theirs

3315
02:09:52,790 --> 02:09:50,639
well at least that we know of but what

3316
02:09:55,910 --> 02:09:52,800
was in these files

3317
02:09:57,750 --> 02:09:55,920
that apparently are evil

3318
02:10:00,550 --> 02:09:57,760
felt that they needed to double the

3319
02:10:01,750 --> 02:10:00,560
ransom from 21 million dollars to 42

3320
02:10:04,550 --> 02:10:01,760
million dollars

3321
02:10:06,149 --> 02:10:04,560
and this is the next part of this

3322
02:10:09,830 --> 02:10:06,159
question

3323
02:10:12,870 --> 02:10:09,840
okay are evil

3324
02:10:13,750 --> 02:10:12,880
there's a problem with both sides are

3325
02:10:16,790 --> 02:10:13,760
evil

3326
02:10:20,069 --> 02:10:16,800
needs to call their own bluff they said

3327
02:10:23,430 --> 02:10:20,079
seven days pay up or we're going to

3328
02:10:24,310 --> 02:10:23,440
reveal this dirt if they're not paid up

3329
02:10:27,510 --> 02:10:24,320
in seven days

3330
02:10:28,709 --> 02:10:27,520
our evils got to represent the hacker

3331
02:10:31,830 --> 02:10:28,719
community

3332
02:10:32,709 --> 02:10:31,840
you can't you can't wish out and on the

3333
02:10:35,910 --> 02:10:32,719
other side

3334
02:10:38,149 --> 02:10:35,920
and that is with the law firm they have

3335
02:10:41,589 --> 02:10:38,159
to stick to their guns

3336
02:10:43,270 --> 02:10:41,599
right you can't pay a ransom can you

3337
02:10:45,189 --> 02:10:43,280
because if you do there's no guarantee

3338
02:10:48,470 --> 02:10:45,199
that these files are never

3339
02:10:51,910 --> 02:10:48,480
going to see the light of day it's a

3340
02:10:53,030 --> 02:10:51,920
very perplexing paradox that everybody

3341
02:10:55,270 --> 02:10:53,040
concerned here

3342
02:10:57,510 --> 02:10:55,280
finds themselves in and that's why greg

3343
02:11:00,550 --> 02:10:57,520
house is here tomorrow night

3344
02:11:02,229 --> 02:11:00,560
and uh let's see wednesday night robert

3345
02:11:05,189 --> 02:11:02,239
shock thursday night

3346
02:11:07,430 --> 02:11:05,199
linda moulton howe fade to black's

3347
02:11:09,189 --> 02:11:07,440
executive producers rita kamarian shows

3348
02:11:10,069 --> 02:11:09,199
produced by hill j paul renee dennis and

3349
02:11:12,390 --> 02:11:10,079
kevin

3350
02:11:13,990 --> 02:11:12,400
announcers are steve harder gene patel

3351
02:11:17,270 --> 02:11:14,000
mark d covar

3352
02:11:17,589 --> 02:11:17,280
the webmaster is drew the geek music

3353
02:11:22,229 --> 02:11:17,599
doug

3354
02:11:24,470 --> 02:11:22,239
aldrich intro spaceboy spaceboymusic.com

3355
02:11:26,229 --> 02:11:24,480
fade to black is produced by kjcr for

3356
02:11:27,830 --> 02:11:26,239
the game changer network and syndication

3357
02:11:29,830 --> 02:11:27,840
is kgra

3358
02:11:32,069 --> 02:11:29,840
the planet this broadcast owned

3359
02:11:33,669 --> 02:11:32,079
copyrighted 2020 by fade to black in the

3360
02:11:35,589 --> 02:11:33,679
game changer network inc

3361
02:11:37,189 --> 02:11:35,599
it cannot be rebroadcast downloaded

3362
02:11:37,990 --> 02:11:37,199
copied or used anywhere in the known

3363
02:11:39,669 --> 02:11:38,000
universe

3364
02:11:41,350 --> 02:11:39,679
without written permission from fade to

3365
02:11:42,550 --> 02:11:41,360
black at the game changer network i'm

3366
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your host jimmy church

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tomorrow night greg house until then i

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want everybody to be

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[Music]

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wow